[Loretta]

Hi friends, 
I have an introductory post over here  https://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=32495&pid=214756#pid214756
Lots of details about my specific body, some unusual stuff that hopefully others can relate to. This is the program I am starting at the beginning of my next cycle. 

50% saponin fenugreek extract: 600mg increased to 1,800-2,400mg (Increased each cycle, allowing 2-4 cycles before the max amount)
Saw palmetto extract: 320mg.
Progesterone cream: Follicular, 1/8tsp. Luteal, 1/4tsp increased to 3/4-1tsp (Increased each cycle, allowing 2-4 cycles before the max amount).

It is based off of this template -- not because it's "the best" but because it was comprehensible to me and the potential effectiveness of it made sense: 

"Herbs: Increase each cycle, allowing 2-4 cycles before the max amount. If less growth is desired, stop the PM and PC at lower amounts.

50% saponin shatavari extract: 600mg increased to 1,800-2,400mg.
Saw palmetto extract: 320mg.
Pueraria mirifica: Follicular, 100mg increased to 750-1000mg. Luteal, 100mg
Progesterone cream: Follicular, 1/8tsp. Luteal, 1/4tsp increased to 3/4-1tsp."

Here's the kicker though: In my program, I'm not starting with any PM. I'm not sure that taking a strong phytoestrogen is right for me. I want to see what the effects of taking progesterone cream are first (and I understand that estro dominance symptoms can worsen when you first start taking PC). I am curious if increasing hormone sensitivity with fenugreek saponins, plus blocking DHT with saw palmetto, then increasing progesterone with PC, will be enough for some growth (with massage and continued attempts to gain weight, tho I am not underweight). From my research, that combination seems like it would allow the estrogen my body already produces to bind to the proper receptors (and grow my breasts as I continue to eat as much food as I can [which so far just keeps my weight stable with all the physical activity I do -- really trying here! In the past my breasts didn't change much when I was 10lbs heavier, or 10lbs lighter]).

I have some endometriosis symptoms, primarily debilitating menstrual cramps the first one or two days of my period and *very* heavily bleeding the first two or three days. Other symptoms are absent, and I have not gotten a diagnosis. However, I do not think it is wise to increase my estrogen, which is what builds the endometrium that sheds so painfully.

I tried to find information regarding PM and endometriosis, but came up pretty dry. The discussions of cancer seemed to be a lot of inconclusive head-scratching. The dosage in the template is very low -- maybe that would be fine? But since I already have bad issues with too much estrogen, I thought I would play it extra safe.

My other issue is PMDD, theoretically but not conclusively caused by low progesterone in the luteal phase. If taking PC helps with that (which anecdotally it does, but like with all these things also does the opposite), I would be thrilled, boobs be damned. 

I'm going to keep my ear to the ground and *maybe* add PM after 3 cycles. If anyone thinks I don't need to be so cautious, I wanna hear it! If anyone thinks another herb in place of PM would be more appropriate, I'm all ears for that too. Let's see how this baby rides, I'll keep you posted.

Current measurements:
Bust: 34"
Underbust: 30"
Waist: 29/30"
Hips: 37"
Weight: 131lbs

[black eyed susan]

Being cautious at the beginning is the right approach I think. Some people take too much too soon and then have no idea what is actually working for them. After all, as you already know, you can easily add to your program as you go along.

[Loretta]

Man, I keep coming across different info and then getting paralyzed. But I'm going to go for it. It's the first day of my period. Progesterone cream is still shipping, but it should get here around the start of my luteal phase. Today I am taking: 

50% saponin Fenugreek extract - 600mg
Saw Palmetto extract - 320mg
Raw Maca powder - 1 tsp
MSM - 1g 
Glucosamine/Chondroitin - 1500mg/1200mg
5-HTP - 400mg

I read so many good things about MSM, here and elsewhere, that I decided to get on that train. Apparently combining it with Glucosamine relieves joint aches for many. Most of what I read was from people suffering from arthritis and healing from knee surgery. I have painful overuse issues in my forearms and elbows; MSM + Glucosamine seemed like a wise addition. I had trouble searching for MSM-specific info on this forum because the search term is too short lol (4 letter minimum). Hopefully the dose listed on the tub I got is proper. 

I'm doubling my regular Maca dosage. I've been eating it on-and-off for years, but it used to be less than 1/4 teaspoon. Started taking 1/2 teaspoon regularly the past month with no noticeable effects besides libido (which is always high anyway). Last month and this first day of menstruating my cramps are WAY less bad, but it's hard to understand the causations there. I did take some ibuprofen this morning preemptively. MSM+glucosamine should theoretically help as well as they are anti-inflammatory.

The 5-HTP I've also been taking now for a month. It's supposed to help with serotonin production, and I do think it has been helping with my mood, particularly my ability to calm down and redirect my thoughts and perspective from negative spirals (big struggle of mine, always working on it). I gotta do more research on the link between serotonin and progesterone. I know they're related.

Body image is a big complicated thing for us all, but I've also noticed an improvement there in the past two months. Before then I was really in the pits, in a dead-convinced sort of way. Can't say what's happened but I'm feeling better. It's something I try to pay attention to because I believe it's linked to serotonin.

I also got a cat, in addition to me and my boyfriend's two dogs. I think it's helping everything, they all get along so cute.

I know this is an NBE forum but I've been interested in herbalism for years. I grew up with a lot of natural medicine and have a number of close friends who went to herbalism school and studied Chinese medicine. I think the overall way that we feel tells us a lot about what's going on in our bodies, so I'm trying to keep good notes here. 

Thanks for reading, let me know any thoughts!

[Babita]

Man, I keep coming across different info and then getting paralyzed.

Yes there's so much to take in and there always seems to be something else to learn. If you're not careful you can get analysis paralysis, so eventually you have to just go for it, otherwise you will never find your solution.

[Loretta]

Here's an update!
As it turns out, I'm trash at staying consistent with supplements :/ but I've been 90% on it, and have been using the progesterone cream daily. I'm on my third cycle since starting the program and have not increased the herbs yet. My work picked up in the busy season and I'm feeling swamped all around. Because I haven't been totally on top of it, I haven't been wanting to post (I do wonder how common that is with members here). Still, some things have changed, and I thought I'd give a report: 

• My extra-bad PMS didn't change much the first cycle, but drastically reduced the second. I still had a couple of very bad days, but really only 2, as opposed to on-and-off about every day for 10 days before my next period began. 
  
• I normally experience swelling in the luteal phase, but with the herbs it was extra. I'm a little skeptical of measuring (pretty different depending on how much the tape mushes me or how high the back of it is since I have really big upper back muscles, not sure how to keep it consistent), so I'm going more by feel and pictures now. My boobs go back to normal a day after I start bleeding, and are fairly deflated by the end of bleeding, and that all has been the same. 
  
• No observable changes in skin or body hair, have kept the saw palmetto at 320mg/day. 
  
• My period pain is still on the severe end, but the last two cycles it was more manageable and not debilitating (especially last month). Still trying to figure out correlations for this, it's kinda all over the place. 
  
• My weight has inched up a 3lb average. Still trying to eat consistently and continuously more than I'm comfortable with (kinda sucks, but I know I gotta be doing it with strength training as well). 
  

I'm upping the doses this cycle, though I'm a few days late. This follicular phase I'll be taking 1200mg of fenugreek (600mg increase) 320mg of SP (same), and 1/8tsp of PC (stays constant for follicular). Luteal phase will be 1200mg of fenugreek, 320mg of SP, and 1/2tsp of PC (1/4tsp increase). 

Honestly, I'm mostly stoked about my fight/response not being jacked through the roof while crying uncontrollably with no hope for the future every other day for half the month. I'm hoping that's the progesterone cream beginning to work. I'm still hesitant to add a phytoestrogen. But, with low herb doses so far and raising progesterone levels, I haven't caused any noticeable harm, and feel pretty good.

[VickyA]

I think you have reasons to feel positive. It all seems very promising to me. But it's better to be consistent if you can because I often hear that one of the secrets of being successful with natural remedies is being consistent.

[Loretta]

5 months in!

And I'm up to the lower maximum dosages for Fenugreek and PC. I haven't posted because nothing has changed since my last update. My menstrual pain is inconsistent, though in only 2 out of the 5 past cycles has it been utterly debilitating. My PMDD symptoms seem diminished as I earlier described -- not absent, but not as consuming as they once were. My breasts are swelling more prominently in the luteal phase of my cycle, but seem to go right back to how they normally are once my period begins. 

I am considering, at this point, adding Pueraria Mirifica. I've been doing a lot of reading and it seems like the prescription in the model program posted above is sound -- beginning at 100mg for the follicular phase and increasing slowly, keeping it at 100mg for the luteal phase. I read other recommendations of not taking it during your period, and I think I'll follow that as well. The final dosage of 1000mg seems too high, but I'll increase by 50mg per cycle and see how that goes.  

This is the product I am considering buying: 
https://www.iherb.com/pr/nature-s-answer-pueraria-mirifica-150-mg-60-vegetarian-capsules/23374?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIo8Of4-OiiAMVGB-tBh34vRcPEAQYASABEgL4mPD_BwE

A lot of the links in the PM forums are dead. I found this brand through an article linked in another thread on that board. It seems like PM is often poorly sourced and comes in too high of dosages. These capsules are 100mg. 

I've seen this info from SurferJoe floating around, that a good ratio of PMC is 5:1. However, that would be currently thrown off for me since I have been increasing PC for several cycles, now up to 60mg in the luteal phase. I don't think it's wise for me to start of with 5x that, I'm going to begin with the 100mg dose I've seen recommended. 

For the record, I'm on day 12 of my cycle. I am on 2400mg of Fenugreek (whole cycle), 320mg of Saw Palmetto (whole cycle), 1/8tsp (10mg) of PC for the follicular phase and 3/4tsp (60mg) for the luteal (will begin taking this luteal phase in 4 days). I'm still eating 1/2tsp of raw maca powder every day. I've been inconsistent with MSM unfortunately, I don't always remember to put it in my water before heading off to work. 

I'm not sure when to add PM, haven't bought it yet, and still reading about it. I think I've given my minimalist program a good shake after 4 cycles, but I think I'll go through one more with a final increase in PC to the higher maximum dose (1tsp/80mg in luteal). 

I'm a little bummed that I haven't seen any physical progress but my long-time attitude of "Well, what can you do?" is serving me well. I've always been built this way and it seems like a pipe dream to change it. I'll still try, though. Rubbing the PC on my body every day is nice, I like the smell of fenugreek, and I've appreciated learning about hormones and their vast effects on every bit of you. 

Hope others are having better luck! 

[VickyA]

This is the product I am considering buying: 
https://www.iherb.com/pr/nature-s-answer-pueraria-mirifica-150-mg-60-vegetarian-capsules/23374?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIo8Of4-OiiAMVGB-tBh34vRcPEAQYASABEgL4mPD_BwE

It's a good choice. It's the same PM that Swanson uses and that's well regarded.

[Loretta]

This is the product I am considering buying: 
https://www.iherb.com/pr/nature-s-answer-pueraria-mirifica-150-mg-60-vegetarian-capsules/23374?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIo8Of4-OiiAMVGB-tBh34vRcPEAQYASABEgL4mPD_BwE

It's a good choice. It's the same PM that Swanson uses and that's well regarded.

Thanks for the input! I'm going to place the order today.

[James98]

Are you massaging your boobs? I think every NBE program should include massaging with oil like Almond oil at least twice a day for 10 minutes.