[universallove]

and anastasia, i dont mean to scare anyone away. forums are for sharing your personal experience, good and bad, and sharing your own knowledge or understanding. my reply to estro-jens post was actually "try it and see"- not, "stay away from it its scary". I am aware that what works or doesnt work for me wont always be the same for everybody else. i just share my opinion from what i have experienced and from what i have read from others experience. even tho i had a nasty experience and read lots of others having nasty ones too, i dont feel i am being dramatic about it or have a vendetta against BO. but obviosuly i have my own opinion which you may have noticed, i feel the need to express here, and thats BO definately requires caution and alot of it.

[lostacres6]

UNIVERSALLOVE,
Your post says it all!!!!! DITTO from me.

[Anastasia916]

universallove, well personally I feel herbs should be taken with caution and alot of it as you put it. Herbs I have noticed not just with me but WAY more others have gotten bad side effects from more so than BO. And sometimes the hormonal imbalances they caused were permanent, like Teeny Tiny on the Noogleberry forum has said it happened to her. From what I have read about those with bad side effects from BO, the side effects show up very quickly and go away when they stop, from what I have noticed they do not have permanent hormonal imbalance caused from BO. Where as herbs, I have read many many women now suffer from PERMANENT damage. So sorry, I feel herbs should have way more caution than BO. But I am all for someone doing the research and knowing what they are getting into before taking anything. And sorry, the way I read what you said didn't seem like you had an interest in her making sure it was the BO and not something else. The way you said it is, I guess you can try it if you want, but BO is freaking dangerous! That's how it came off. Just saying. But I'm not here to argue about it. I really don't see why people that have had issues with BO are lurking on the BO section. I don't go into the herbal section unless I notice I can put input like maybe on an herbal product I've tried, or if someone is having the same side effects I had, etc. I stick to the sections I am into. I mean you gals expressed your bad side effects and such from using BO in that other thread for all to read to know what may happen (which is great), does it really need to carry on and on like this? I mean all this girl had was headaches, not over emotions, not suicidal thoughts, not painful periods, etc. It sounds to me like even one negative thing you are ready to jump the gun. But I'm not going to argue about this, this is my last comment towards this.

But yea, anyway, if the problem is estrogen dominance and a hormonal imbalance, that should be taken care of first before starting a NBE program. This is also why I recommend everyone cleanse before beginning any NBE program as their can be excess hormones and you don't know it. I do full body cleanses before I start any NBE program, and I do it again after I'm done, I have never done a pill program more than 6 months as I cleanse anyway, on a program or not every 6 months. I get kits from health food stores or vitamin shops that cleanse the entire body, they are usually done for an entire week. But I think the main thing that needs cleansed with NBE is the liver as that's where the excess hormones build up in from my understanding, and you can cleanse that with taking milk thistle for 7 days.

[Ginie]

Hm.. Not my thoughts but what my doctor says about BO. It doesn't load your system with extra estrogen. Rather it stimulates your system (ovaries and corpus luteum). They start to produce more. Both estrogen and progesterone. So it's not correct to say that BO causes estrogen dominance.

Everything about NBE is trial and error The correct patyh is: hormonal tests -> choosing your NBE method. In a perfect world I can just see myself walking into a clinic saying: "Hi docs, I want my boobs to grow, please throw few of your tests in just to find out if my hormonal status will be OK to start herbs or BO. My insurance covers it, right?"

PS. There're herbs to balance your hormones. They work very slowly but they do. Maca is not the best one for that. Vitex can be useful. The chineese doctor I consulted says nothing beats Rhodiola quadrifida in bringing your hormones into balance. There's almost no information about this herb, it is considered adaptogen but what it really does is cleaning your entire system (the whole body) slowly repairing what is not functioning well. But herbs you have to take for a very long time. AND! The only way to get it right is to go see a herbalist for that.

[universallove]

Anastasia: i guess i "lurk in the BO sections" cause i am curious to see any responses to threads I have previously written in, mostly, out of interest to see what people respond pretty much. that is the main reason! probably the same with others who hang out in the BO section who no longer take it! sometimes I dont have much to do so just check in to see if there are any people who have joined in conversations i was having in the threads, just chit chat in a way. And thro the chit chat sometimes I feel I want to share an opinion, for example, about BO, cause i know when I was wanting to try it, I was interested to hear what others said about it, good or not so good reviews, wanted to hear what all different people had to say, so i thought, it could be useful to some others now, for me to share a very particular experience I had, and a resulting view point i may have from that. But thats only part of it- why I "lurk" here, i think its mainly as I said, interest in the conversation that I was involved in before. I havent had herbs, so dont have an opinion about it, but from what I read you are right, people seem to have very nasty experiences with them too! and yes, similar to the side effects of BO.

I guess also, like you said, i do kinda suspect that BO is "freaking dangerous" and actually I am curious to see what becomes of it. i am interested to see what people say about it on goingly, cause actually, i wouldnt be very much surprised if I read a post one day about something particuarly bad happening and the BO companies getting sued or something. i mean, i know that anti depressant companies have definately been sued, after suicide attempts and such from people taking them, cause it was proved that the anti depressant increased there depression, and they werent warned it could do that. I have heard of drug companies being sued for much less than that too.

i dont really know about the risk level of BO at all- I just have a suspician (I dont claim that my subjective opinion is the authority on it!), but like i said, i have an interest. and for the benefit of those like yourself who take it without any negatives, I very much hope my suspicion about BO is very wrong, and that BO is totally safe![/align]

[universallove]

and ginie, thanks. Vitex- will look into it

[universallove]

and anastasia, yes milk thistle, have heard of that. thanks!

[universallove]

ps anastasia, if you read my post u might see it was not dramatic at all. it just says that I think bo may contribute to having too much estrogen, as i had experienced it had and notice others do too. and BTW my mood stuff was not the only side effect. I had other side effects too which are related to estrogen overload, and i do realise estro jen didnt get the mood thing as badly as i did. sorry i know we are going on and on about this. I dont think we are actually arguing about anything? I just keep feeling like you are misreading my posts so I feel the need to clarify what I said!

[lostacres6]

THE THREADS ABOUT BO "SAVED MY LIFE." IF SOME POSTERS DECIDED NOT TO WRITE ABOUT THEIR BO EXPERIENCES (EMOTIONAL), I WOULD STILL BE TAKING BO & STILL BE THINKING MY DEPRESSION WAS CAUSED BY SOMETHING ELSE. I AM VERY GRATEFUL TO ALL WHO SHARE THEIR STORIES ABOUT BO OR ANYTHING ELSE NBE RELATED.

[Anastasia916]

universallove, I'm really not trying to come down on you like you may think I am. I myself have made posts about certain things on other forums about other subjects where I didn't think I was hostile towards it, but everyone else viewed it as if I was. Sometimes we can think we are not meaning to be mean about something, but it can come off that way to others. When I read things I read it from all viewpoints possible, I read between the lines, and analyze it to see the meanings behind it. Just how I am. And a few of the things you said may have seemed harmless to you, but they didn't to me and could very well be taken the wrong way by others as well. For example, when you said "try it i guess, and see what happens. i think it is very powerful- BO i mean, and you will be able to notice pretty fast if its having a bad impact on your health." I mean come on, read it from every standpoint and tell me you think that is innocent?? I see it as, and some others may as well, you can try it i guess, but BO is very powerful and can damage your health, so beware. That can scare people out of taking it, I've seen people stop taking stuff before because of one person having bad side effects. No matter what the drug, herb, supplement, etc. there will people at least ONE person in this world that world have a bad side effect from it. Just like people have allergies to things, it happens and there is nothing you can do about it. So someone should sue a wheat company because they are allergic to gluten? I think not.

Another post of yours that kind of rubbed me the wrong way... was when very knowledgeable members advised on how to take BO properly by balancing out the hormones with progesterone and the like, you said... "i would disagree anastasia, about taking measures to balance your hormones before stopping UB. just cause of my personal experience with that, but of course it might depend how long youve been on UB, obviously." Now looking at this as if I were a newbie to NBE again, this would make me lose all hope in BO. Because what you're saying is... no matter what people do, it's going to make them have bad side effects, it will damage their health, and they shouldn't listen to the forum members who have done a ton of research and know what they are talking about, nope they should just stop it all together. Sorry that's not good advice. When I had bad side effects on herbs, I started trying to balance my hormones, trying to find the culprit, etc. Did I find it? No. But others that have taken herbs and had bad effects did find their culprit was this or that particular herb so they stopped it and continued on their program and had amazing results... So my point is... crystalelle, the one who knows about BO and balancing the hormones while on it, the one you were pretty much arguing wouldn't do any good, blah blah... what if you tried what she's suggesting while on BO and it balanced you out and you had amazing results? You wouldn't be here today bad mouthing BO. Plain and simple. She is actually very educated on BO through her research, and I believe if someone is having bad side effects should try her suggestion first before stopping. Using me as an example with the herbs, sure trying what others suggested in balancing the hormones and such didn't work for me, but I'm ONE person, it helped others. So if her suggestion could help others why toss it to the side and say nope, that wouldn't work, you should just stop it all together?

I'm sorry to say this, but I'm glad these posts weren't around when I went to go try BO. They would have probably discouraged me from using it, which would have been a shame. But I did do my research, I read crystalelle's posts and I knew if any bad side effects came up what to try first before stopping. The DIM or progesterone cream, so people like her could very well help others in their program. And who knows, if you ladies with the bad side effects tried to balance your hormones, got rid of the excess estrogen, then started BO again with the DIM, who knows if you'd even have the bad side effects. That's the point here. Is you're saying not to even try, that nope, BO is dangerous, stop taking it all together. And sorry to say this, reading that post of yours on the other thread... 3 months of having bad side effects... I would have looked into how to fix it way before then, but that's me. I looked into it as soon as I started having bad side effects and realized it was the herbs doing it, I think about a month in? Maybe less, hard to remember. If you go with supplements be they internally or externally with a cream or lotion (because your skin is like a huge sponge and the herbs or whatever DOES go into your blood stream btw) they are all hormonal, period. And I think people need to realize that and realize they could end up with a hormonal imbalance and how to fix it, if the problem arises. I've seen people fix their hormonal problems while on herbs or BO, then have results on them.

Anyway, that's what I have to say on the subject. Hope it clears up what I'm meaning by everything.