[twister_mama]

I know what you mean Raw; I'd be tickled pink to be an A!!! When I first started NBE last June, I was COMPLETELY flat. As in, ZERO breast tissue. Nothing "stuck out" except my nipples. So when I got that initial growth, every last drop of fat was very visible. Imagine if you will, taking a small spoonful of Jell-O gelatin and plopping it down on a table. The table was my chest before NBE (literally!); the Jell-O was the new growth. It was very noticeable; and quickly added inches to my measurement since there was actually "something" on top of my ribs for the first time. But my breasts were only two small mounds in the center of my chest. For the past 6 months or so, my breasts have been slowly getting wider; the diameter of them has been increasing. My breast tissue now covers a much larger area of my chest instead of those two little mounds I had before. But it's very spread out; I have not had any outward/measurable growth in a very long time. And that is so discouraging! I'm not even sure how much, or even IF I've grown at all for the past few months. It's so hard to judge growth when there's no change in measurement, or how your bra fits (I'm still drowning in my 34A bra), or even in the mirror; you have to go by feel. And even then, I'm always second-guessing myself. I think it was definitely time for a break and a cleanse. Even with the loss of some fullness, I am still definitely bigger than I was when I first started NBE. I'm actually pretty excited to see what changes are ahead for me once I start back up in a few weeks!

I'm actually glad that I noticed I lost weight. Four pounds may not seem like a lot for someone who is 200+lbs; but for someone who was 122 lbs, losing four pounds in less than one week is pretty significant. It totally explains where my extra fullness went! This morning I was actually a little lower than 118 lbs. But I'm still having these strange achy feelings and tingles in my breasts; it even made me uncomfortable while trying to sleep last night. Not sore to touch or anything; just a strange achiness inside that was there regardless of whatever position I was lying in. I even felt a heaviness on my chest while listening to my hypnosis last night.

Also, based upon info I learned on the thread "BO growth without pituitary?" I've decided to completely cut out my melatonin supplement. I realized that I have been taking melatonin (in a high dose) since last fall; and that was also when my noticeable growth really seemed to stall. It could just be a coincidence; but after learning that melatonin can promote the release of HGH, I think maybe my body has become dependent on the melatonin supplement and perhaps is not producing much of its own. Melatonin supplements are really only supposed to be used short-term to help with regulating sleeping schedules; not for long-term use like I've been using them. So last night was my first night without taking melatonin; and I was awake much of the night! Oh well. Hopefully this will get easier! It will be interesting to see what effect, if any, this has on my NBE. Every pill or supplement you take affects your body's processes in some way. It never occurred to me that the melatonin could have been hindering my program; but it's possible it was. Of course I don't know this for sure; it's all trial and error! But it would be best for me to get off the melatonin supplement anyway.

[soonenough]

Hi Twister_Mama,
So true about your comment, "Every pill or supplement you take affects your body's processes in some way". A good reminder to think first before following everyone's program especially those who had success in their NBE journey.

Just want to let you know I'm cheering with you every step of your journey. I didn't get the chance to follow you from the very beginning, but from what I've read in your posts, I admire you for sticking to your course. Even when you announced that you are taking a break to give you time to reevaluate your program, you just did not say "I'm giving up."'

Keep on going and know that you have encouraged me greatly and keep me pressing to reach my goal, and I'm sure it's not only me.

Here's to your success and everyone else in this board!

[itsjust4fun91]

I just realized the only part of my post that showed up was the statement that i had major headache problems...it completely cut off the explaination. Weird. Anyway, I was saying that I do think it's possible for raw glandulars to work so well that your own body stops producing it's own hormones since it thinks it doesn't have to. When I stopped taking bb I began having massive headaches everyday of the month. I had weird sinus pressure and was dizzy and miserable. I went to the doc thinking something was terribly wrong in my sinuses and leading to not only the facial pain but also migraines. She said it sounded like I had no estrogen production and put me on bcp. All of my symptoms were gone in an hour. Obviously staying on bb for a year then stopping cold turkey was not the route to take. I wonder now if you have to taper off to stop if you have been on a glandular for a long time.
Mel

[twister_mama]

Aww, thanks soonenough! I wish you the best of luck with your quest for bigger boobies too!!! I truly believe your frame of mind plays a huge part in NBE. If you think you probably won't grow, you won't. If you're positive and keep telling yourself "I am growing," then you will. That's why I do all that hypnosis stuff; to help me imagine myself with larger breasts (which is hard for me, since I've never been larger than I am right now), and for those positive affirmations. Since I've always been a psychology nerd, hypnosis fascinates me. I am seriously considering, sometime in the future, completing Steve G. Jones' 8-week online Hypnotherapy Certification course. Apparently, I have the perfect voice to be a hypnotherapist. Because whenever I'm talking a lot to my husband or my kids, they all get that bored, glazed-eyes look on their faces. In fact, if either of my kids are having a hard time falling asleep at night, I just sit on their bed and talk on and on and on about stuff; puts them to sleep within 10 minutes. I used to read books to my pets when I was young, and they'd always fall asleep. I even put my Mom's bird to sleep when she has me on speakerphone. According to one of Steve G. Jones' books that I have (and I read from start to finish in one sitting), the aim in hypnotherapy is to be as boring and monotonous as possible; and I accomplish that every day with ease, lol. Haha, I could use this "gift" to my advantage; while my kids are in their "hypnotic state" from Mommy droning on and on, I could say things like "You will enjoy being a well-behaved child." And for my husband, say things like "Your wife is always right." LOL!!!

Mel, that sounds so much like my experience. I've had a constant, unrelenting headache going on for four weeks now. It started while I was still taking all those pills; that's partly what prompted me to stop taking everything two weeks later. I've been totally off all my supplements for two weeks now; and I still have that headache. I finally took 800mg of ibuprofen today for it, which helped just a little. I'm getting tired of this! I still get stomach aches every day, although the frequency is getting less and less as the days go on. My anxiety/panic attacks are getting much better too. I tapered off my adrenal glandulars by taking one a day for a week (instead of two a day that I had been taking); then I did one every other day for another week; now I'm off it completely. There does seem to be a gradual improvement in my symptoms, so that is hopeful!

I honestly don't know what condition my hormones are in now. Since I had a hysterectomy almost two years ago (still have my ovaries), I have no cycles anymore. I don't know when I ovulate or anything; or even if I ovulate at all anymore. I think I'm the only one on this board in this situation. And taking my basal body temp isn't really feasible since I rarely wake up at the same time every day; and many nights I only get a few hours of sleep. My sleeping schedule is so messed up too, going to bed in the middle of the night and waking up at noon. I don't know if my hormones are balanced, or if I'm estrogen dominant or what. I'm encouraged by the fact that I had good growth when I first started BB; so I've just been trying to concentrate on cleansing my body of all the "outside influences" from the BB pills and all my supplements during my month break. Get back to that "clean slate" I had when I first started my program back in June!

Since I've been off all BB, supplements, and protein drinks for two weeks now, I have two weeks left of my break. I started with one milk thistle pill a day the first week; the second week, I took two pills a day. Tomorrow I'll do three pills a day. The bottle says to take one pill two to four times a day; but I'll stop at three pills a day. It says to avoid taking it if you're allergic to ragweed, which I am; fortunately I haven't had any adverse reactions to it yet. I started those Nature's Code vitamins ten days ago; and since starting them, I'm not cold anymore. And despite the fact that I've been totally off all L-Tyrosine, adrenal glandulars, and Iodoral (iodine), my temp has been stable at 98.5. Before, my temp would always be like 97.6. I strangely lost four pounds last week; and three of those pounds came back this week. All this without changing anything in my diet or anything. BUT, I also discovered very recently (past few days) that just about all that breast fullness I lost when I stopped my supplements has come back! And I've been having lots of aches, tingles, itching, and occasional soreness in my breasts every day too. Without ANY NBE pills, protein drinks, massages, pumping, or exercises. Just my hypnosis at night, and occasionally during the day (kinda slacked a little on that during the day lately). And lots of positive thinking! So I'm really anxious to see what changes I may see when I start back up on my BB pills in two weeks.

[luisa]

I read somewhere on the old forum of a woman who grew through visualisation so it is definitely possible that you are growing because of the hypnosis!

[charrr]

yay! okay friends! i think there are several success stories encouraging me back to hypnosis! i had good luck with it too. i really like that it is simple, cheap, and works! i only stopped it cause i moved to a new place. i am going to find headphones right now

[twister_mama]

Yes girls, I definitely recommend hypnosis! I'm still infusing my mind with positive boobie thoughts from my recordings every day! For me, it's relaxing and puts me in a good mood. In fact, I just bought a new iPod shuffle that I put only my hypnosis stuff on, so it's more convenient to listen to during the day instead of my bigger iPod Touch. I find I'm listening to it like a good 3-4 hours a day now. I've only had experience with the Steve G. Jones hypnosis recordings; but I'm sure any of them would be helpful (Boobster, Wendi's, Blaketalks, etc.). You just really have to BELIEVE that the changes are happening!

This is the last week of my break. I've been off all my pills, supplements, and protein drinks for over three weeks now. I'm up to taking 4 milk thistle pills per day. I just added one MSM capsule to my mix per day as well. I'm still having lots of aches, itchiness, and soreness. I'm thrilled with the soreness, because I haven't had soreness like this (where it's kinda painful to push on my breasts) since early last fall; and that was the last time I had any measurable growth. So, bring on the pain!

I don't know if my pains are from stopping my pills and I was overloaded and stalled (you know how they say if you stop your pills and the pains come back, it means you were overloaded); or if it's from the hypnosis; or the fact I'm on really good complete vitamins now. Probably a mixture of all three!

When my break is over next Thursday, I will taper off my milk thistle pills down to three a day for a week; then two a day for a week; then one a day. I may stay at one a day just to prevent another overload; unless I feel it's interfering with my BB or something.

I'm not having anxiety/panic attacks anymore, and I feel a lot more relaxed (sometimes TOO relaxed; I'm usually really tired and sometimes I fall asleep at the dinner table, lol - oh well). My stomach aches are for the most part better. And my temperature is steady between 98.6 F (when I'm cold) up to 98.9 F (when I feel comfortable). So that's cool! I used to be 97.6 F all my life. Unfortunately, my headache is not any better. In fact, it seems to be getting worse. I think it's likely my sinuses; probably an infection. I may eventually have to go to a doctor for it, if it continues to get worse. I've had it over a month straight now.

Listening to my hypnosis is therapeutic for me. It's really helping my self-esteem. I'm actually starting to feel better about my breasts, and how they look. Of course I'm still aiming for a full C cup! But positive thoughts and imagery really do seem to be helping me, both physically and emotionally.

[twister_mama]

I went to the doctor yesterday for my headache, and he said it definitely sounds like a wicked sinus infection, so he got me started on antibiotics for two weeks. Hopefully this will do the trick, finally! I am wondering, though, if my sinus infection is the real reason why my temp is running higher than it's usually been for me recently. I guess time will tell.

I've been feeling horrible the past five days. Similar to how I was feeling a month ago, except I have not been having panic/anxiety attacks or uncontrollable shaking. I've been bloated, kinda nauseous, and have had really bad cramps that felt exactly like period cramps; except I have no uterus or cervix since I had a hysterectomy almost two years ago. And Sunday through Wednesday, I've had A LOT of vaginal discharge (sorry if TMI!). Like, so much that I kept going into the bathroom to check my pantiliner, thinking it was a period (absurd, I know; but that's exactly how it felt). The discharge was a darker tan color instead of my usual light yellow color. I have hardly any appetite; and I'm starting to have diarrhea now too. My stomach is sore if I gently push on it in the center. I was concerned; and I was considering going to my OB/GYN since I haven't been there since my hysterectomy post-op. Then it occurred to me last night that I've been taking milk thistle for the past nearly four weeks now; and since it's supposed to detox your liver, it's quite possible it could cause some gastrointestinal problems. So I looked up "side effects of milk thistle," and checked out several different sites. Every site said that possible side effects can include: Stomach upset, stomach pain, nausea, vomiting, bloating, diarrhea, loss of appetite, heartburn, sweating, insomnia, runny or stuffy nose and irritated eyes, headaches, irritability, joint pain, weakness, and impotence. The ones in bold are what I've been experiencing; some of them for a few weeks now, some of them have become more severe as time has gone on. I also read on every site that the recommended dose of milk thistle is *UP TO* 250 mg of extract (70-80% standardized) three times daily. My pills are 1000 mg each. They are 80% standardized extract (according to one site that sells them), and the bottle says "from 250 mg of 4:1 extract." I've been taking THREE pills a day for the last two weeks (only one pill, and then two pills a day for the two weeks before that), per the instructions on the bottle. So, if I'm not mistaken, that is FOUR TIMES THE MAXIMUM RECOMMENDED AMOUNT!!! And I'm not a big person; only 120 pounds. No wonder I'm feeling so sick right now! I also read that it can interact adversely with Allegra (allergy medication), and of course, I've been taking Allegra for nearly four weeks now as well. And you should avoid milk thistle if you are allergic to ragweed, which of course I am (I already knew this; but I guess I figured that if I would react to milk thistle, I'd get a rash or something). Allergic reactions to milk thistle can include: A rash or hives, itching, swelling of the mouth or throat, wheezing, and difficulty breathing. Funny, I wondered why my new asthma inhalers were not helping my breathing problems at all these past few weeks! Needless to say, I will not be taking milk thistle anymore. I also learned from all those different sites that milk thistle may have estrogen-like properties; and it is advised you not use it if you have estrogen-dependent tumors or cancers like uterine, cervical, ovarian, or breast; and because of this it could theoretically worsen estrogen-sensitive conditions like uterine fibroids and endometriosis (of which I've had both). Probably explains that "period cramping" pain I've been having, and the increased vaginal discharge too. I feel this information needs to be out there for everyone on this forum, since milk thistle is mentioned and used a lot for liver detox. There is such a thing as "too much," regardless of what the label on the bottle may say! I may start a new thread on the general discussion board and copy and paste this info on there, just so everyone is aware of this.

So ladies, as I have learned, PLEASE do your research and look up the possible side effects and dosages for EVERY supplement you consider taking, BEFORE you take it! And then proceed with caution. At least you'll be informed about what you MIGHT experience while taking the supplement; and you'll have some idea as to what the appropriate dosage is.

And oh, I will be making an appointment with my OB/GYN just to get a check-up, since it's been quite a while. I do have a history of polycystic ovary syndrome, fibroids, and endometriosis; so it would probably be a good idea to get checked out once in a while. Unfortunately, it seems that my doctor is currently scheduling way out into July now; so it'll be a couple months before I can get in to see her. That figures, lol.

Now I'm kinda bummed, because I was all prepared to start back on my BB pills and protein drinks tomorrow (my month-long break is over now); but because my stomach is doing so badly, I should probably wait another week or so until I recover from this. Darn it.

Edit: I just wanted to say that obviously I cannot be totally, 100% sure that the milk thistle is entirely to blame for my recent gastrointestinal symptoms; but after reading the side effects, and the correct dosages, it seems very likely to me that I have been taking WAY too much, and as a result, am experiencing some pretty severe illness because of it. Bad enough that I felt it was necessary to bring it to the attention of my fellow NBE'ers! If my symptoms don't improve over the next week or so, then I will need to explore other causes.

[Melody]

I'm sorry to read about all you're going through. Hope you feel better soon. I just thought to myself 'wow' as I read your post b/c just today I was reading a little about Milk Thistle and the benefits. I wanted to learn more about recommended dosage for a liver detox. Along with searching for the benefits some websites mentioned some of the very things you did, which surprised me. One being the estrogenic properties. I still think Milk Thistle can be beneficial but after what I've learned about it today and from your post it's just important to be careful with dosage and the period length of usage. I can't speak for anyone else but I know with myself personally I can sometimes assume that b/c something is natural there aren't any side effects, which I know is not right. Thanks for your post.

[soonenough]

Oh my, Twister Mama. I hope you get over and find relief soon over your terrible symptoms. Thanks so much for posting the effects of milk thistle for you. You know, I was about to add milk thistle to my daily supplements, but after reading your posts, I'll investigate further on how it will benefit my NB routine. What the previous poste is true; supposedly, herbs are natural and will not have any adverse effects, but sometimes, too much is also a bad thing. The thing is, finding the right amount is trial and error, and sometimes inadvertently, we go over, or the opposite, we take less for it to become effective. Haaaaa, this NBE thing takes a lot of figuring out.

Let us know what your test results when you get your ob-gyn appointment. Hopefully, you can get back to your BO routine before then.