[Wahaika]

Hi Hope,

Not necessarily all grains, but refined grains - like flour. Whole wheat bread once in a while is OK, for example, but not white bread. Refined carbs are the enemy for those with high androgens. Ice cream, because of the sugar in it, is another culprit. Anything that will metabolize quickly to sugar causes an insulin spike in the bloodstream. Insulin causes inflamation. It also binds to SHBG which makes it unavailable to bind to testosterone which raises the level of free testosterone in the bloodstream. Inflamation and testosterone are therefore the result of sugars be they refined or in the form of high glycemic (Turn into sugar fast) carbs.

Eat lots of salads, especially dark leafy greens. Eat lean meat - about the size of your palm per serving. You don't need to throw all carbs out of your diet, you need carbs too - but get slow burning carbs such as those in salads. Fruits are OK too - but avoid citrus for now. As your skin clears up you can reintroduce everything back into your diet, but in a controlled way, watching the effects. When you start reintroducing Ice cream back in your diet as a regular dish, you will see it (balanced with everything else) start to raise androgens and will know to back off. It is not unlike ramping up herbs. - But you're ramping up foods to keep an effect inhibited rather than causing one.

Which herbs did you have in mind?

Mountain of Rose herbs is OK.
Starwest Botanicals is excellent. (and probably is the supplier for places like Mountain of Rose Herbs.)
Frontier is another good supplier.

For PM, St. Herb has another site where they sell bulk PM:

http://www.puerariamirifica.com/importer...erials.htm

http://www.puerariamirifica.com/pueraria...powder.htm

http://www.puerariamirifica.com/pueraria...-spray.htm

http://www.puerariamirifica.com/pueraria...xtract.htm

Wahaika

[Wahaika]

Hi Ginie,

EPO is excellent for NBE except when one has high androgens. It makes it worse. The main thing of interest in EPO for NBE is GLA. Borage oil has three times the GLA as EPO and is a very good substitute as an internal. It is better than EPO as an external in my opinion.

Ah yes, the ever continuing discussion on follicular vs. entire cycle for PM. Who is the Japanese girl that grew to an E cup? I would like to see her program. Another Japanese woman who grew to about an H cup (or was it F? - in Japanese sizes) is Chiyomilk. She also used PM in the follicular phase, but she also used other things throughout the cycle, such as a collegen supplement and an HGH supplement, and she used Japanese products which are not available anywhere else.

My opinion is that it depends on what works for each individual. That is always the best, and by having both options one is able to try them out and see what works the best. But for discussion sake, I am on the entire cycle side of the fence. I still think that fenureek is better than PM, but for those in the smaller sizes, PM would be a better thing to start with.

Where is the big discussion?

Wahaika

[luisa]

Wahaika, I was wondering about your view about taking PM capsules whilst on birth control. Is there a safe amount that can be taken with bc without making bc less effective? I am on Yasmin but will be switching to Valette or Belara because of my acne. Also, what do you think about using progesterone cream during the second half of the cycle? I did not grow at all during pregnancy and I believe that thePC may help with the development of the mammary tissue. Many thanks in advance.

[MoK217]

Ah yes, the ever continuing discussion on follicular vs. entire cycle for PM. Who is the Japanese girl that grew to an E cup? I would like to see her program. Another Japanese woman who grew to about an H cup (or was it F? - in Japanese sizes) is Chiyomilk. She also used PM in the follicular phase, but she also used other things throughout the cycle, such as a collegen supplement and an HGH supplement, and she used Japanese products which are not available anywhere else.

Wahaika

The Japanese girl everyone is referencing is Chiyomilk. For some reason she started getting called the Japanese girl, instead of Chiyomilk.

Her program broken down by GorgeousBlonde....
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8294

[Ginie]

Hi Wahaika, when I was taking Borage oil I had the worst acne breakout of my life! I still shiver when I think about how awful it was. And I normaly don't have acne, maybe just two-three pipmles before period though my skin is quite oily. What does it say - do I have excess androgens?

Yes, exactly that girl! I keep forgetting her nickname, yes, it is Chiyomilk! Japanese H=European E cup. When she just started with PM she was taking it throughout the cycle. But it kept delaying her period (1 weeks, then it was 2 weeks, as far as I remember) and then she modified her program. She was taking PM until 1-2 days before ovulation and B-UP Drop after ovulation. Here's the ingredient list of B-Up Drop, mainly phytoestrogens, low doses. http://www.richworld.jp/exp/superbup/details.htm
When she stopped taking PM throughout the cycle then her period got back to normal. The funny thing is that she thought B-UP Drop was progesteronic because it had wild yam in it

I follow her program and after 2,5 months I have really good results. But I also take lots of other supplenets as in her program (collagen, pig placenta, hyaluronic acid, MSM, vitamins). I was about to add EPO but having read what you wrote I think I will not take it.

I also think that FG is great, my NBE journey started with herbs, I grew from "almost nothing" to "between A and B" but unfortunately it really messed my cycle. Now I think that maybe I should have decreased the dose of herbs in luteal phase or before ovulation to let estrogen level drop and trigger ovulation. Complicated

Thank you for sharing your opinion!

[hope]

Hi Hope,

Not necessarily all grains, but refined grains - like flour. Whole wheat bread once in a while is OK, for example, but not white bread. Refined carbs are the enemy for those with high androgens. Ice cream, because of the sugar in it, is another culprit. Anything that will metabolize quickly to sugar causes an insulin spike in the bloodstream. Insulin causes inflamation. It also binds to SHBG which makes it unavailable to bind to testosterone which raises the level of free testosterone in the bloodstream. Inflamation and testosterone are therefore the result of sugars be they refined or in the form of high glycemic (Turn into sugar fast) carbs.

Eat lots of salads, especially dark leafy greens. Eat lean meat - about the size of your palm per serving. You don't need to throw all carbs out of your diet, you need carbs too - but get slow burning carbs such as those in salads. Fruits are OK too - but avoid citrus for now. As your skin clears up you can reintroduce everything back into your diet, but in a controlled way, watching the effects. When you start reintroducing Ice cream back in your diet as a regular dish, you will see it (balanced with everything else) start to raise androgens and will know to back off. It is not unlike ramping up herbs. - But you're ramping up foods to keep an effect inhibited rather than causing one.

Which herbs did you have in mind?

Mountain of Rose herbs is OK.
Starwest Botanicals is excellent. (and probably is the supplier for places like Mountain of Rose Herbs.)
Frontier is another good supplier.

Wahaika

Hi Wahaika,

I guess I really do eat too much refined grains. Do you have some suggestions for snacks?

Starwest Botanicals looks like a great place to buy herbs. Thanks.

Is the soy taken in EveM's program just soy milk or soy milk powder?

Could you tell me more about the topical you mentioned in the earlier posts? It includes borage oil or borage powder?

Thanks again =)

[beachbumbythesea]

Hi Hope,

Not necessarily all grains, but refined grains - like flour. Whole wheat bread once in a while is OK, for example, but not white bread. Refined carbs are the enemy for those with high androgens. Ice cream, because of the sugar in it, is another culprit. Anything that will metabolize quickly to sugar causes an insulin spike in the bloodstream. Insulin causes inflamation. It also binds to SHBG which makes it unavailable to bind to testosterone which raises the level of free testosterone in the bloodstream. Inflamation and testosterone are therefore the result of sugars be they refined or in the form of high glycemic (Turn into sugar fast) carbs.

Eat lots of salads, especially dark leafy greens. Eat lean meat - about the size of your palm per serving. You don't need to throw all carbs out of your diet, you need carbs too - but get slow burning carbs such as those in salads. Fruits are OK too - but avoid citrus for now. As your skin clears up you can reintroduce everything back into your diet, but in a controlled way, watching the effects. When you start reintroducing Ice cream back in your diet as a regular dish, you will see it (balanced with everything else) start to raise androgens and will know to back off. It is not unlike ramping up herbs. - But you're ramping up foods to keep an effect inhibited rather than causing one.

Which herbs did you have in mind?

Mountain of Rose herbs is OK.
Starwest Botanicals is excellent. (and probably is the supplier for places like Mountain of Rose Herbs.)
Frontier is another good supplier.

Wahaika

Hi Wahaika,

I guess I really do eat too much refined grains. Do you have some suggestions for snacks?

Starwest Botanicals looks like a great place to buy herbs. Thanks.

Is the soy taken in EveM's program just soy milk or soy milk powder?

Could you tell me more about the topical you mentioned in the earlier posts? It includes borage oil or borage powder?

Thanks again =)

Hi Hope,

I am needing to think of snacks that dont contain any or too much bread type carbs (I have symptoms of excess androgens).. so I was thinking of what snacks that I can enjoy cause I tend to be always hungry but yet have a hard time to gain (plus I know I am a carb. and sugar addict) anyway... I was thinking of making (or maybe buying it but need to read whats in it first) hummus with raw veggies, its pretty easy to make so I think I may just make it, also I love avacados sp? and make that mix in some fresh salsa not the kind that looks like tomato sauce, in the produce section they have one that looks like everything was just chopped and put into the container or I may make my own of that too..I use to make it and it came out pretty darn good.. If I have more ideas I will post them for ya and if you have some let me know too..

Thank you

[Wahaika]

Luisa,

I don't know about BC and PM, but it would be my assumption that the two are OK.

Progesterone cream during the second half of the cycle should only be used if women are trying to fix a progesterone deficiency. To use it for NBE is a bad idea, in my opinion, and it has been my observation over the years, that if women use progesterone cream their NBE progress stops dead in its tracks. BCs that are progestins probably have the same effect.

Wahaika

[Wahaika]

Ginie,

I have never seen a case where borage oil caused an acne breakout. Are you sure that it was the borage oil?

B-UP DROP looks OK for the luteal phase, but due to the Black Cohosh, it should not be taken in the follicular phase since it is an LH inhibitor. I would not suggest it for anyone not trying to fix a cycle related problem, but it looks like they found a use for it. I wonder if they put it in for a specific purpose or if it is just another kitchen sink ingredient. Also, there is no allowance for Chiyomilk's personal hormone profile. When using her program, always take into account differences in hormonal makeup and adjust accordingly.

Did you fix the cycle problems that you had as a result of using Chiyomilk's program?

Wahaika

[Wahaika]

Hello Hope,

There are some really good protein bars out there. Have you tried any of those?

http://www.pureprotein.net/category/BARS

Wahaika