[mochaccino]

For anyof this to make any sense whatsoever, there would have to be some kind of working consensus on exactly what they mean by "strong" or "potent" in this case, and i dont know that there is or that there even could be.

[gogirlanime]

I must say that I don't understand the claims that some phytoestogens are thousands of times stronger than others. I've read that estrogen is thousands of times stronger than phytoestrogen, so if some phytoestrogens were thousands of times stronger than other phytoestrogens wouldn't they be as strong as estrogen?

I think the proof of how strong it is is in the results people are getting in a certain length of time. Soy has phytoestrogens in it, but have you ever heard of anyone growing a cup size with them? I have heard some people have gotten some results using red clover as a breast enhancer, but this is rare. But on top of the list, the one that supposedly has the highest amount of phytoestrogens is the one that most people are getting results with.

[Magdalena]

I read once that soy is 3,000 times weaker than Pueraria Mirifica

If that's true pueraria mirifica is surely very dangerous. I've often read that soy should be taken with caution, and some sources don't recommend it at all because of its high phytoestrogen content, so if pueraria mirifica is 3,000 times stronger than soy it must surely be regraded as a deadly substance or a potentially deadly substance?

[VickyA]

If that's true pueraria mirifica is surely very dangerous. I've often read that soy should be taken with caution, and some sources don't recommend it at all because of its high phytoestrogen content, so if pueraria mirifica is 3,000 times stronger than soy it must surely be regraded as a deadly substance or a potentially deadly substance?

I have to agree. If the 3,000 times stronger idea is true, then pueraria mirifica is far too dangerous for anyone to consider taking, as it would be way stronger than estradiol or any real hormone.

[Pansy-Mae]

If that's true pueraria mirifica is surely very dangerous. I've often read that soy should be taken with caution, and some sources don't recommend it at all because of its high phytoestrogen content, so if pueraria mirifica is 3,000 times stronger than soy it must surely be regraded as a deadly substance or a potentially deadly substance?

I have to agree. If the 3,000 times stronger idea is true, then pueraria mirifica is far too dangerous for anyone to consider taking, as it would be way stronger than estradiol or any real hormone.

Ladies,
I think you are allowing yourselves to be carried away by if's, buts and maybe's.

If you look at one of the major brands of PM ( Ainterol) own claims, they say that in their product, "Miroestrol is between 40.53-42.10mg/100gm". Their capsules contain 500mg of PM, which equates therefore to 0.20-0.21mg Miroestrol per capsule.

Whether that claim is true or not I have no idea, but that is the starting point for how potent their PM is, not somebody on a forum saying that they think they read somewhere that somebody said that....!

Pansy Mae

[Denver roller]

I think it should be pointed out that most herbalists say YOU DON'T NEED huge amounts of herbs to make them work for you, so I think the debate about which herb is the most potent is probably missing the point. If you needed huge potency you would constantly get recommended huge amounts of herbs to take, which isn't the case. It seems that herbalism doesn't work like that. Even if you could establish which herb was the most potent source of phytoestrogens and prove as much it really wouldn't be useful information.

[Isabelle]

Haha Denver Roller,

I like this post. I agree, and what's more: I used too much, and stalled. Had to break for a month and start over. Taking too little is not a problem: just try a little more, until it works. I assume the same goes for using an herb that is too potent, or for using too much of it anyway.

[mochaccino]

Denver, you don't stall because a particular phytoestrogen is too strong, you stall because all, or most, of your estrogen receptors are filled, which triggers downregulation. The trick might be to take the minimum effective dose of a an herb that contains a particularly powerful phytoestrogen. I think that's what most of the men around here are doing by making PM there primary herb.

[rosieli]

Good God! just like all the studies online, maybe they are but maybe they aren't. In the end no one has absolute evidence concluding actual facts, just anecdotal evidence to say they might be, but they might not be

[rosieli]

oh, the thing I read about soy phyto-estrogens is that they may be strong but not active such as other phyto-estrogens.