[Isabelle]

Shoots are less than yesterday, but then I drank last night's hops as tea, to help soothe my cough. So taking hops with a meal or in porridge is indeed better for NBE.

Fenugreek helps fine - tmi alert - loosening the slime. It's amazing how taking only three things, hops, fenugreek, and a multi, creates enough flexibility to deal with health issues too.

What's next? I have no breakouts or hair loss, so I don't need to start an anti-androgen now. I'll keep them for when I do.

I wanted to see whether hops alone works just as well as a formula. It does. In this three month ramp up, I also wanted to try maca, but if it works for so many, why not for me? What makes me tick is learning. Prettymama coined a phrase for it : "boob science"
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8791&pid=31261&highlight=science#pid31261

Wahaika came up with a new, very interesting option:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8872
If flax can really help to build SHBG, this is the Boobie Grail! Back to the books, and learn more

[Isabelle]

For now, I'll continue the program as it is. Flax seed is not something I expect great benefits from at this time. It does increase Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) if 10-25 % of a diet is replaced by flax seed, but not in NBE doses.

In this group of postmenopausal women, consuming flaxseed (5,000 - 10,000 mg) in addition to their habitual diets influenced their endogenous hormone metabolism by decreasing serum 17
-estradiol and estrone sulfate and increasing serum prolactin concentrations:
http://www.encognitive.com/files/Flaxsee...0Women.pdf
There was no change in SHBG.

13,500 mg had no effect on SHBG in young men:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...1705806876

My own good experience with broken flax seed
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=30327&highlight=linseed#pid30327
and Ginie's
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=7251&pid=25714&highlight=flaxseed+%28crushed%29#pid25714
could be explained by the increase in prolactin, since we were both using only flax seeds, at a time when we were not short on estrogens.

MoK217 may have stopped growth because of the decrease in estrogen:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=7876&pid=30134&highlight=%22flaxseed+oil%22#pid30134
Marisa Miller Wannabe probably broke out because flax lignan inhibits aromatase:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8960&pid=31547&highlight=breakouts#pid31547
When aromatase is inhibited, testosterone cannot be converted to estrogen. The only way out for testosterone is DHT then. DHT causes the breakouts.

My feeling at the moment is that flax works well in a program that has no other way to stimulate the secretion of prolactin. And even then, only when there are plenty of estrogens.

[Isabelle]

Last time I measured was two weeks ago, on July 11th:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=30744&highlight=bmi#pid30744

Height: 178.5 cm = 5' 10" I assume it's the same now.
Weight: 84.5 kg = 186 lbs has gone up to 85 kg, + 1 lb, while I should be losing a pound a month.
BMI: 84.5/1.785/1.785 = 26.5 has gone up to 85/1.785/1.785 = 26.7
Breast: 105 cm = 41" down to 102 cm
Under: 97 cm = 38" same
Waist: 96 cm = 38" gone down to 94 cm
Hip: 101 = 40" has gone down to 99.5 cm
Waist to hip ratio (WHR): 96/101 = 0.95 has gone down to 94/99.5 = 0.945

The changes are not really consistent: weight up, and all the tape measurements down. But then the differences are so small that they probably don't mean anything.

Taking another look at my targets:
A BMI of 23 (73 kg, or lose 25 lbs!) and a WHR of 0.8 (waist 81 cm), in two-three years.
WHR 0.7 (hips 116 cm) and F cups in 5 years.

So only WHR is moving in the right direction. But that's the one I focused on: stopped the glucosamine and started fenugreek. For the next two weeks, I'll focus on weight. I'm not making any changes to the NBE routine, even though I seem to have lost over an inch. I was thinking about bringing the oat flakes back in, but then I found this post by Wahaika:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=5&pid=10&highlight=SHBG#pid10
Oats lower SHBG: so that's where the androgen effect comes from

[Isabelle]

Hops carries its own anti-androgen. That makes it a good herb for beginners, but sometimes I wish I could lower the anti-androgen. Like now.

My hair is coming back, I have no breakouts, no chest hair, just a few around my nipples. And facial hair, well, they'll all be white a few years down the road anyway. So who cares?

So I don't need to increase my anti-androgen. The question is whether I'm not taking too much. I found this long thread about the benefits of DHT. Most of it is worth reading, too:
http://www.afboard.com/forum/showthread....our-friend

What struck me is the part that says muscles are the only part of the body that reacts to testosterone. All other parts react to the androgen signal via DHT, including the brain. That means libido is DHT. The text also mentions the ability to cope with stress. Mine has never been good, and hops didn't improve it, no. Some women became weepy back in the days when hops was still very popular on this forum.

So instead of an anti-androgen, I may need a second phyto-estrogen, so I can lower hops. But which one?

[beachbumbythesea]

Hey Isabelle,

Just want to let you know that I may not always reply to this thread but I am always reading it.. That is so funny what Prettymama wrote "boobie science" so true..a freakin puzzle..you know that card thing that you stack the cards carefully without them falling...that is what boobie science is ... I also feel like a chia pet..feed me herbs and pills and wait and see if and what grows.. Well you wrote interesting stuff as usual...yawn..haha just kidding..anyway..refresh my brain dead head..you said a second phytoestrogenic..is maca one I cant remember..I think you said it was testostrogen if so then me taking that and PM maybe they are balancing.. what else is phytoestrogenic..what are you deciding on or the reason you didnt wrote any choices is you have no dam clue..hehe..huh..

[Isabelle]

LOL Susan

A card house! Yes, that's what it's like. Hops and FG are the only cards up. The others keep falling down

Maca... that's a good idea I could get maca or oats in now, without losing my hair. Slooowly: Prettymama started with 500 mg the first week.

Yes, maca and PM are keeping you in balance: PM for your skin, and maca for energy. Skin and energy can tell you if you can go up or down.

Wait and see if and what grows: a chia pet indeed! Think I can grow alfalfa on Pauly D's head?

[beachbumbythesea]

LOL Isabelle I could just imagine us and some others on here getting together...here comes trouble

Anyway..lol lol who is Pauly D..that was to funny..

I am finding out that making the regimen simple is better on the body not to over load it with too much of anything..

Prettymama started off slow, she smart not like me bam and I think that is why I think I might have stalled a few days ago..then again doing all this mad changing may be confusing my body and waking up my receptors..just sayin.. Wahaika says changing your dose or doing anything differen but mostly the dose or not taking any is cycling so you dont stall or is it if you are stalling.

[/align]

[Isabelle]

Pauly D is a character from that show Jersey shore. The one with the hurricane season hair.

You are right: stalling will not happen easily if you cycle. But I can't kick my body around too much. The consequences are often: low energy, feeling depressed, or bad mood.

Testosterone could be an answer: maca could help, but my gut feeling says too much testosterone will stop my growth

[beachbumbythesea]

Hey..

I dont watch that show..sorry..but hurricane hair..sound wicked halarious..

Ok..this is my thought about what your feeling..I cant tell you not your self by your posts..anyway..I say just try a very small dose of maca..it suppose to balance it all out..just going by me too.. I was thinking that just taking on thing was throwing my hormones way off..I am so glad I added maca so far..I feel I am going to get good results cause I havent felt much tingling for weeks until I add maca..so back to you..remember this is all about experimenting..just think if you dont try it it may have been the key.. you have been experimenting with the hops.. Isabelle I am thinking that maybe your thinking of to many routes of blocking this to much of that...you are so much like me analyzing sp? so much we miss the whole picture...my man told me the other day man you analyize too much..and I thought about and I do and he isnt the only one that has said that..so I stopped well trying to cut down on it..and I did with this regimen, instead just trying different things and seeing what happens..of course there is some analyizing but not over kill like before..

So bottom line IMO just try it and see what happens..the worse thing it will set you back a few days if that or it may open out a whole new route..

[Isabelle]

Then maca it is! First thing in the morning. If you sleep better on it, it will probably wake me up