[Isabelle]

Hi MoK217,

I needed some time to think about this, and I'll need more time to prepare a table, starting from Wahaika's graph. Take a good look at the graph yourself: I linked it in the post above. And I need some data on your PM and hops: is PM Siriporn or Ainterol or UK? Is the hops an extract, or a liquid extract (tincture), or a whole powder?

What you are doing looks pretty good, actually. Taking PM on days 6-12 is certainly OK, since you ovulate on day 14. You may be pushing it on day 13, but you can check the length of your cycle: if it has increased to 29 or 30 days, you may want to stop PM after day 12. You can also take half the dose on day 13: look at the graph, it's the decrease in estrogen that triggers ovulation.

On days 14-27 you can take FG and Hops. The only question is how much. I would like to see progesterone higher than hops between days 18-26, but that only means you will need to limit the dose of hops. Once I have the data on your hops, I'll do the math on how much you can take, and post it here. FG should be equal or lower than hops then. Do you take hops in porridge or a meal? It's stronger then: digestion can increase 8-prenylnaringenin 10 times by digesting xantohumol to 8-prenylnaringenin. The 'potency' of the 8-prenylnaringenin in hops is *not* much lower than that of the deoxymiroestrol in PM. It's at the bottom of the top paragraph on p. 181 of this book 'Bioactive compounds in foods', by John Gilbert and Hamide Z. Senyuva:
http://books.google.nl/books?id=-2myBYRAGogC&printsec=frontcover&dq=bioactive+compounds+in+foods&hl=nl&ei=HtkiTsSWNdCbOo_apfEO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=deoxymiroestrol&f=false

So I have all the numbers to do the laboratory calculations, as soon as I know about your hops and PM. The question is what to do on day 28. I'd lower hops, as in Wahaika's graph. Then again, what to do on day 1? Most PM users go full throttle on PM. Let's put it this way: don't start before day 6 if you want to get pregnant. Even if you don't want that, I'd gently increase PM to peak on day 11, just like in the graph.

[eva_bs]

Isabelle,
What are you saying? To start PM on day 1 of my cycle? or on day 6-7???

[Isabelle]

Hi eva,

You can start PM on day 1, but at a low dose. Increase the dose from day six to day 11.

I think your body needs low estrogen and low progesterone during the increase of FSH from day 26 to day 5. Isn't that what makes an egg grow?

So if you want to keep a normal cycle, start slowly on PM. Think about your first cycle on PM.

[eva_bs]

I just started taking PM...I am now on day 21 of my cycle...and my morning body temp is way too low!!!!! At this time of the month I am supposed to by around the 36.3-36.5. And now I am at 35.8-36.0.
I took PM on the 1st day of my cycle till day 12. and since then I just was using the cream.
Now I think that the PM messed up my whole cycle!
I started with taking only one pill of PM. it contains 300mg.
What should I do???

[storm_in_an_a_cup]

I just started taking PM...I am now on day 21 of my cycle...and my morning body temp is way too low!!!!! At this time of the month I am supposed to by around the 36.3-36.5. And now I am at 35.8-36.0.
I took PM on the 1st day of my cycle till day 12. and since then I just was using the cream.
Now I think that the PM messed up my whole cycle!
I started with taking only one pill of PM. it contains 300mg.
What should I do???

Hi Evas_B's!

PM seems to have messed me too. This is a link to Bellasbeautifulbust.com, she sells PM products and her information regarding dosage and WHEN to take is interesting

It's the 5th question down.

http://www.bellasbeautifullbust.com/FAQ-dosage.html

I am not using her products but am goign to try this technique - it didn't do her any harm!!

Good luck!

[Ginie]

Hi Eva, when did you mark the ovulation according to BBT chart? On day 14? Was there a drop in temperature on day 12? Do you take any regulating supplements in luteal phase? Did you experience PMS before? How do you feel now? When I started Pm my PMS symptoms vanished! I used to sweat at night 2-3 days before period (estrogen lowest) but now I don't experience this. Something must be working on my estrigen and as I'm not taking any phytoestrogens in luteal phase it must mean that either cream does have a systemic effect or that PM gets accumilated for a while at least. And even you stop the pills before your ovulation it still can postpone your ovulation though not dramatically, maybe just a day or two.

I also think that cream actually DOES have a systemic effect. I know, everybody says it doesn't but what else could cause low temperasture?

Don' t panic, this is something which really can ruin your hormonal balance.

besides, if this is your first month of PM then your body needs to adapt to it. Your dose was good, not too much, so you should be fine.

[eva_bs]

Hi Eva, when did you mark the ovulation according to BBT chart? On day 14? Was there a drop in temperature on day 12? Do you take any regulating supplements in luteal phase? Did you experience PMS before? How do you feel now? When I started Pm my PMS symptoms vanished! I used to sweat at night 2-3 days before period (estrogen lowest) but now I don't experience this. Something must be working on my estrigen and as I'm not taking any phytoestrogens in luteal phase it must mean that either cream does have a systemic effect or that PM gets accumilated for a while at least. And even you stop the pills before your ovulation it still can postpone your ovulation though not dramatically, maybe just a day or two.

I also think that cream actually DOES have a systemic effect. I know, everybody says it doesn't but what else could cause low temperasture?

Don' t panic, this is something which really can ruin your hormonal balance.

besides, if this is your first month of PM then your body needs to adapt to it. Your dose was good, not too much, so you should be fine.

Hi Dear.
I am now spotting... I don't know what went wrong!!!! I took the pills just like everyone takes them. I don't take any other pills exept the PM. My body temp is still low...35.8-35.9 I am now on day 22 of my cycle.
Should I panic or should I not? I didn't understand what you said....
when I ovulate...I don't have much of a difference in the morning body temp reading...I think its a different of 0.5-1.0 a change in the body temp. So I don't know when I really ovulate...it confuses me a lot! My cycle usually is 28 days...so I assumed that I ovualte on day 14. but again there are some cycles that I have a long cycle...up till 32 days. Now I think that my cycle will be really long...my body temp didn't go up yet...and I am now on day 22 of my cycle.

[MoK217]

Isabelle

I believe you are on to something. I was suppose to start AF on the 27th. Here it is the 29th, and nothing. Slight cramping, but nothing else. I stopped taking the PM on the 12th, which was the 13th day of my cycle. I have extreme rounded breasts and the fullness is absolutly amazing which showed up on the 26th when I woke up. I'm not to worried about getting pregnant. Between the 2 of us we have 6 children, and I have my tubes tied. I however don't want to mess up my cycle. It's weird though. Because the first month I took the PM throughout my whole cycle, with no delay in af coming. No good changes in breasts, but definitly deflated breasts from taking PM the whole cycle. And this month I do half and half, and my breasts are full and beautiful, even though they are still small. Wonder if it's working? Also, I take Ainterol PM 500mg, when I wake up, and when I go to bed. Haven't been doing any massages or batters. On day 13 I stop the pm, and take nothing but Multi, MSM, Gaba, and Vit C. Then on Day 14 I started the FG and Hops in addition to the others. On the 26th I woke up happy with the swelling I guess you could call it. Then I started the PM on the 27th which was day 28 of my cycle, when I always start. I didn't have any tingles or growth feelings until that day. But nothing now but bloating and slight cramping. I also take powdered form Hops and FG from mountain-roseherbs. I only took it twice a day instead of 3 times. Thanks so much for your help. What do you think about adding progesterone cream?

Also ladies....I found a recipe to make your own WY progesterone cream.

Buy wild yam roots from a whole food store or online. ( haven't looked to see how hard this would be to attain). Then you put roots in a bowl, and put enough water in the bowl with the roots to soak up. You place roots in mason jar halfway up with roots. Then fill the rest with lard or oil, whatever you want to use as your cream base, then you pressure cook on 10 for 30 minutes. I believe you can also hot water bath for longer, haven't tried it yet. When the pressure cooking is done, the oil or lard will have all the wild yam root juices in it it. Then you just scrape the cream stuff out, and you have progesterone cream. Only problem is you don't know how potent it really is. So you have to kinda take it slow. But it should prove relatively cheaper than buying the cream itself. That's gonna be my next project.

Sorry about the Novel all!

[Isabelle]

Hi MoK217,

I just had a similar discussion with BelaBrasil.
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=9142&pid=32187&highlight=Lee#pid32187
At the bottom of this post, you will find dr. Lee's test. Ginie recommends his site for learning how to use PC.

I feel it can be useful for days 18-26. You can keep taking lots of phyto-estrogens, if you use PC to be progesterone dominant during those days. That will keep your cycle going.

I think you can peak at 3 PM for one day, 3 days before ovulation. And you can go up to 2000 mg hops 7-10 days after ovulation, as long as you use enough PC or phyto-progestins (fennel) to stay progesterone dominant over the second half of your cycle.

[soonenough]

If this keeps up, with more and more of us trying this PM in follicular and herbs in luteal, we'll build a big enough sample size that we can establish our own study as to the efficacy of this combination in breast growth.

I, too, am going this route, and I'll report on the results after 3 months.

Thanks, isabelle, for your detailed and exhaustive info. My major is in bio/chem, and I still can't quite assimilate the info you are providing in my head. But the more I read your posts and the links you provide, I guess with repetition, it's starting to sink into my dense mind.

You are awesome; it seems like we have another Wahaika in the board. Valuable asset.