[Isabelle]

Hi Susan and Marcy,

A program with maca, FG and SP misses a phyto-estrogen. The only alternatives to PM, without phyto-progestins, are hops, yellow dock, and sheep sorrel:
http://www.cancersupportivecare.com/estr...tml#table3
If you want to add a second phyto-estrogen that also has phyto-progestins, for the second half of your cycle, you have the choice between licorice and red clover.
Herbs that are even higher in phyto-progestins, like thyme, mandrake, turmeric (curry), and yucca, are almost contraceptives. Progestin-only herbs like Damiana are traditionally used because progesterone also increases sex drive in women. Fennel is also in that category, but it increases prolactin too, so its traditional use is for breastfeeding (who says you can't have fun?). Bloodroot is one to stay away from, unless you want an abortion.

SP is a strong anti-androgen. It blocks DHT. But your brain needs DHT for libido and to build the ability to cope with stress:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=31857&highlight=DHT#pid31857
You may feel weird on SP, like Susan and me and Wishgranted:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&page=8
Weaker alternatives for SP are barley grass, hops, and the teas: green, mint, and licorice. Maca also contains an anti-androgen: sitosterol. So if you don't break out on maca, you might as well drop the SP. I have it in the emergency kit, just in case I break out or start losing more hair.

A program with only maca and PM misses something that increases prolactin (for swelling) and increases insulin sensitivity (waist slimming), like fenugreek. Alternatives are goat's rue and nigella sativa (black seed). Two brave ones, lled34aa and Georgeous Blonde, are already on PM with goat's rue:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=6893&pid=32526&highlight=goat%27s+rue#pid32526
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=9222&pid=32434&highlight=goat%27s+rue#pid32434
I have goat's rue, because it's less smelly than FG for massage. I had black seed, but gave it to my ex for trying. Hey, I only have one body

I moved my FG to noon after maca in the morning, after reading Marcy's post:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8791&pid=32332&highlight=cancel#pid32332
So even if maca levels out all my hormones in the morning
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8791&pid=32413&highlight=prolactin#pid32413
FG can still increase prolactin in the afternoon and cause swelling in time for the party.

Since I found the two pamphlets saying maca increases DHEA
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=32411&highlight=dhea#pid32411
I just assumed all hormones the body makes from DHEA would go up, but the scientific literature in the same post says they don't. DHEA is dehydroepiandrosterone in this map:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Steroidogenesis.svg

The article from 2007 states explicitly that Serum testosterone levels were not affected by red maca, even after testosterone had been increased artificially before:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...1306002182
so for testosterone, maca is certainly not an "adaptogen", that balances all the hormones.
The 2011 publication concludes that red maca, administered from day 1 to day 14 reduced prostate size and zinc levels in rats where prostatic hyperplasia was induced with testosterone enanthate.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.11...x/abstract
so the maca must have increased either DHT or increased the effectiveness of DHT in the prostate.

So those people tested quite recently for testosterone what we want to know for prolactin. Maybe they're just all guys. The scientific solution to this problem is to walk up to them at a conference and stand on one leg. Elbows in waist, tummy in, chest out. Chin down, head slightly tilted, eyes high in their sockets. Bat eyelashes (if you had time for preparation, they're falsies) and compliment them on their publication. Ask if they would be so kind as to answer a few questions about it. Bat once more on "kind". Talk faster in a low, husky voice when you switch the subject to prolactin. Well, I'm sure there's plenty of ways to do this in a nice, friendly letter or e-mail

[Isabelle]

Thank you Susan,

For this post:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=9021&pid=32559&highlight=L-arginine#pid32559
L-arginine also increases prolactin. So if there is no need for waist slimming, PM + L-arginine + multivitamin is a complete program. It works well for MydreamisGcup:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=7915&pid=29360&highlight=L-arginine#pid29360

[beachbumbythesea]

What do you mean no need for waist slimming.. I think I am going to buy a prenatal..

Your welcome..whoof ok answering in different order of your post..ok going to take a nap..

[Isabelle]

No need for waist slimming? Well, like... you!

You don't need to slim your waist. From your pics, your waist hip ratio (WHR) looks like 0.7. That's ideal for a woman. So you need no FG, GR, or nigella sativa to increase insulin sensitivity. Good insulin sensitivity decreases waist size.

If I divide my waist size by the widest size around my hips or butt, WHR was 0.95 three weeks ago, and still 0.945 a week ago. Even for a man, that's too much. 0.8 is ideal for a man. I have high WHR because I'm overweight (BMI=26.7) and because I took glucosamine for three years. Glucosamine decreases insulin sensitivity.

Research with questionnaires and photo series showed that WHR of 0.7 for women and 0.8 for men are considered ideal for sexual attraction. WHR is the most important metric for sex-appeal, more so than cup size and such. In partner selection, WHR allows people to judge one's health prospects in a fraction of a second. If I stay at 0.95 for long, I'm sure to develop cardiovascular disease in 5 years, and diabetes in 15 years.

So men with WHR above 0.8 and women with WHR above 0.7 should be looking to reduce waist size. The gym and crash diets will also slim the butt and the boobies, so they don't really help. Increasing insulin sensitivity is key. FG, GR, and nigella sativa do just that.

[Isabelle]

I have been looking into the two alternatives for hops. Some forum members have indicated they cannot spend cash on NBE. Well, they don't have to: here are two roadside noxious weeds that contain phyto-estrogens and no phyto-progestins, like hops: Yellow dock and sheep sorrel.
http://www.cancersupportivecare.com/estr...tml#table3
Dock (Rumex obtusifolius) was also tested but didn't make into the top 12 of phyto-estrogenic herbs.

Some species of docks (rumex), with particularly high levels of oxalic acid are called sorrels (including sheep's sorrel, Rumex acetosella).

The flowers and the stems of sheep sorrel (Rumex acetosella) may be brick-red.
For a picture, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumex_acetosella
Sheep sorrel can be eaten in salads, but it contains oxalic acid. So it's best to eat it with an egg, and not together with calcium.
Sheep's sorrel is widely considered to be a noxious weed, and one that is hard to control due to its spreading rhizome. Blueberry farmers are familiar with the weed, due to its ability to thrive in the same conditions under which blueberries are cultivated.
Sheep's sorrel is one of four herbs in Essiac, a herbal tea that has been studied in cancer research, with dissappointing results.

Yellow dock or curled dock (Rumex crispus)
Picture and description: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumex_crispus
Curled Dock grows in roadsides, all types of fields, and low-maintenance crops. It prefers rich, moist and heavy soils. Its traditional use is for skin inflammation.

It can be used as a wild leaf vegetable; the young leaves should be boiled in several changes of water to remove as much of the oxalic acid in the leaves as possible, or can be added directly to salads in moderate amounts. This plant should only be consumed in moderation as it can irritate the urinary tract and increase the risk of developing kidney stones.

Well, NBE doses are "in moderation". I remember my mom telling me sorrel is edible and helps against inflammation. Going to check in the neighborhood if the right docks and sorrels grow here.

[Isabelle]

I was wondering if aguaje would be a good alternative for maca.

Fish grow faster on maca:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.11...035.x/full

But aguaje indeed contains phyto-estrogens, phyto-progestins, and ß-sitosterol, which is an anti-androgen. This means it could be the basis of a very simple program.
It's in this text Pansy-Mae found
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8827&pid=31082&highlight=aguaja#pid31082
and I checked: there is scientific literture that confirms phyto-estrogens, phyto-progestins, and ß-sitosterol are all in aguaje.

The only thing it misses is something to increase prolactin: fenugreek, goat's rue or nigella sativa. Or one of the breastfeed teas: fennel, aniseed, dill, blessed thistle.

Has anyone tried this yet?

[beachbumbythesea]

Hey Isa..

Wow out of breath running from the other thread...haha

I was going to ask how the maca is doing for you.. every time I take a maca I get tita action..whats up with that..you said you do too..hey not complaining but just my curious scientific mind at work..and I know you have the knowledge of finding out.. I have read on the other forum some women getting more tita action then butt..

[Isabelle]

Yes, for me maca swells them fast too. Not in an hour, like fenugreek. More after a day or two. Maca does not increase prolactin, so it must be something else. Going back to the books

[Prettymama]

Ive read if most of your weight gain goes to butt or thighs thats what will grow first and if your weigjt goes to boobs first that is what will grow on maca...in my cases its true...my boobs only grew with babies...so macas not doin nada for my boobs...check out my pic pages for my new plan ; )

[beachbumbythesea]

Yes I believe that too..cause I always would gain boobs first and first place to go if I lost weight..I saw your plan..I think you have it down..I wish you the best.. Oh you mentioned too about rubbing the fish oil on the butt...I read that whole thread too and noticed that mentioned too..I wonder why it helps it grow too..fatty acids? seem like that is in alot of creams too..I know Isabelle will have the technical answer..