[Isabelle]

Hi Susan,

You can use SP with the flax, yes. It will only take a little, maybe you're already using enough.

I am balancing my program out again. Maca 3,000 mg, FG 4,000, and hops 3,000 mg. I was able to cope with stress, so maca is not too little.

[beachbumbythesea]

Hey girl,

What are you doing up so late Are you feeling ok..did those doses you mentioned above work quickly..or is that why your up now..

Ok..so SP will counteract the flax oil..cool..

Hey just to let you know I live in USA, New Jersey and we are having a huge storm and most likely lose power possibly for a few days or so if you dont hear from me then you know why.. Storm is going to get worse in a few hours but the worst of it will be early tomorrow..

[Isabelle]

Good morning Susan,

I hope you're well. Since last night, we've had some bad weather here too. But mostly rain and lightning, no heavy winds.

Yesterday night, I was just back from driving my younger daughter and a friend of hers to an anime convention. My elder daughter was there too, with a bunch of friends. I helped her with her cosplay outfit last week. Yes, there are advantages to having an old tranny for a dad

Today, I want to stick to maca 3,000 mg, FG 4,000, and hops 3,000 mg. I only started that yesterday, but last night was OK. Night sweats, but no headaches or foggy thinking. I want to keep a little estrogen dominance, to get my NBE growth going. So I hope 4,000 mg FG makes just enough progesterone to balance the estrogenic effects of the maca and the hops, but not too much.

[beachbumbythesea]

Goodmorning Isabelle,

Everything is good..no damage, still have power so far..my sister lost hers last night.. I have been tired still not sure why been eating a little better but I seem like I want to sleep alot. I am getting shoots in the titas not really any swelling the mix I have going now seems to be good for my acne and chin hair pretty much gone.. still not sure about my flaxseed oil.. if to take cause of the lignans..is estrogen and estriol the same thing..

[Isabelle]

Hi Susan,

Happy to read it all went well so far. Best of luck with the tail of it.

Happy to read your mix is going well to. Anxious to know if your cycle length will be normal.

I'm not too worried about lignans inhibiting aromatase. I linked a publication here
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=30327#pid30327
It says the lignans bind to aromatase, but the strength of the chemical bond is weak. Testosterone binds much stronger to aromatase. I expect that a lignan sitting on aromatase will politely stand up and offer its seat to the first testosterone that comes along. Then the aromatase makes estrogens from the testosterone. It may take a little longer than if there were no lignans, but the end result is the same.

There are three estrogens: estradiol, estriol, and estrone. Estradiol is the strongest. There is also more estradiol than estriol or estrone.

[beachbumbythesea]

Hi Iasbelle,

Didnt have much energy lately.. anyway.. I think I am going to put the flax on hold..I was thinking of downing my PM (to 1)and start upping my FG what do you think..and not sure about SP go up to 2 a day, my FG is 2 a day now..I am also thinking to not taking PM this whole time not sure..example when I took 3 PM during my high estrogen point (only taking that at that time) I got good tingling, then it went away after going down to 2, then it got tingling when I added FG and got more so after taking the 2nd pill later in the day and I get tingling after taking SP but not much with the PM..now if I take PM out during this cycle should I do 3 FGs, 2 SP, should I take some Fennel..I only have it to make tea would it interfere with growth now or what..it says Fennel is good detox for the liver but they Fennel can have a neg effect too.....would like to keep the liver nice so the herbs, supps, and food can work better..and of course keep the liver healthy..what are the cons of Fennel.. can FG and SP be taken alone and still get growth.. I also read that PM helps growth fast but FG is slower but permenant..so I was thinking just taking PM first part of cycle and not sure what mixture second half FG,SP, Fennel..What is interesting to me is that if I take more PM I get good tingling at 2 pills I dont get much..but taking FG and SP and PM so far I have been getting constant tingling but not much swelling..I guess tingling is just as good, I guess you dont have to swell or be sore.

[Isabelle]

Good morning Susan,

Lots of questions. If you've been having low energy, avoid too much SP. More FG will help. Lowering PM will help too.

Make sure you don't lengthen your cycle. Keeping your cycle going like clockwork is very important now, to stay away from early menopause. If I remember correctly, day 1 was August 11th. So today, Monday the 29th, is day 19. That means the time is right to up FG, but you can still wait a few days before lowering PM.

FN tea is for days 20-23, the progesterone peak, so start tomorrow. It may stop your growth for those 4 days, but you will still get the swelling from FG. The swelling will become growth in the end.

Did you decrease PM on day 12 (last Monday)? That decrease keeps your cycle going, because it triggers ovulation in a day or two. Your period will follow exactly 14 days after ovulation, next week Wednesday.

If you didn't notice an ovulation, you can have another go at it by lowering PM to 1 today. Then you will have a 35 day cycle.

FG and SP without anything else can work, but slowly. Take more FG than SP.

FG, FN, and SP is a good combination for the 2nd half of the cycle, but make sure you stop both FG and FN on day 24. You may experience PMT, but the SP will prevent breakouts before your period. Always be careful with SP: I read somewhere it can speed up osteoporosis.

How long have you been going without a break? If your liver needs a cleanse, just finish this cycle and then break for 4 weeks. Just stop everything on Saturday.

[beachbumbythesea]

Goodmorning Isabelle,

Sorry for all the questions. Thank you very very much for you suggestions. My period started on the 12th. Yes when day 24 comes I will just take 1 PM and wait til period starts again and follow the chart. I think I will keep it the way it is according to the chart and come the 20th day like you say I will drink some FN tea just a cup or least see what I can tolerate and see what it does. I had some milk thistle and took 1 pill. As for SP I will keep it at 1 a day unless I get more symptoms, I may take it every other day. Is it a good thing I am getting tingling but no swelling, do you have to have swelling to grow. As for my tireness I think it may be cause I havent exercised or even been walking for a week, basically a couch potato..lol plus I have alot on my mind. I am tired of thinking of this NBE but at the same time dont want to stop, want to get it to where I feel good and can just go on with everyday stuff.. Maybe when I get my hair done in a few days it will make me feel better. no more braids, going to look like my hair grow fast.. I will post another thread with pics.. having it done so far Thursday unless she cant make it down because of all the flooding in some areas.

How are your titas doing. How are you feeling. How important is it to get all the estrogens, and if it is are there different herbs, foods, or supps that get them going. Is PM and FG coving all the angles, in my mind I feel it is. Hope that ? made sense

[Isabelle]

Hi Susan,

Hope you find really fast where the pregnancy feelings come from Do you also have that look in your eyes?

You don't need swelling for growth. A PM-only program is a good example.

I haven't given the three different estrogens much thought. But I think you are right again. Estradiol is the most potent and the most abundant, so people focus on that.

But in NBE, we know one example where estrone is important: wild yam. Wild yam increases estrone. But the biochemical reaction scheme shows estradiol can be made from estrone:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Steroidogenesis.svg
So the effect of wild yam does not really prove estrone is important by itself.

The arrows in the graph reaction scheme show that estriol cannot react back to estradiol. I can't find the full text of this publication,
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...2299000109
but it discusses its reference 16 with the comment "In a trial with 12-week treatment period with estriol pessaries, two women out of 53 reported breast enlargement or pain [16]".

If two women out of 53 would report results on this forum after 12 weeks, we would be interested in their program. So estriol does something in NBE.

The reaction scheme does not leave much room for widely different natural ratios between the three estrogens. But wild yam can increase estrone. I will read more on other herbs that target the individual estrogens.

My own program is running quietly again. Tingles and no headaches. No experiments for a while

[beachbumbythesea]

Goodmorning Isabelle,

Hey your getting tingling cool.. me too and I stopped all herbs, took nothing today but I did do a massage but was getting tingling before that.. maybe this is a good thing, may jump start them. Haha, no experimenting..hehe.. if it aint broke dont fix it theory..

OK I looked at the graph/chart in the first link where your talk about wild yam.. progesterone is connected to corisol?.. and androgens are kind of important accorrding to that all the estrogens come from that..hey then what the heck I should have huge titas with all my androgens so the more I think about it to me looks like maca would work for both(maca instantly popped into my head reading that chart)..but in my case I need to find the balance or when to take maca...dam I love doing puzzles but the hormones is making my brain into one..no wonder why I have foggy thinking..whoooooooo

Thank you again for doing the research on the estrogens well I know your still checking things out.. I am almost interested in goats rue also for the 2nd cycle or and wild yam..I was thinking doing just PM only the first half the 2nd come up with a mix..

Anywho.. how is the dressup coming along with your daughter Yes I read what you wrote in another post but too tired to reply about it..