[lled34aa]

pansy-mae,

what is your PM to SP ratio? i'm thinking of adding SP to my regimen but i'm not sure how much to take.

are there any evidence that shows herbs in liquid form works better than pills form? they both have to be processed through the liver so i would imagine its the same.

[Pansy-Mae]

Yes, literally at the same time, in my mouth together. One lot at about 7-30am and the second lot at about 7-30pm.

Thank you very much.. do you have a program listed anywhere, I would like to check it out. Is the only growth you experienced what you mentioned above, when you switched to PM and SP.

As for program, that's it, just PM and SP, morning and evening as I've said. 2x 500mg PM and 2 x450mg SP each time. The only other thing I do, and it varies slightly, is to go up to 3 x500mg PM twice a day for a few days, then down to the twice 2x500mg for a 2-3 weeks then down to twice 1x 500mg for a few days and then back up to 6 a day...and so on.

That very roughly mimics a normal female estrogen production cycle and also keeps the body guessing to some extent and limits the possible tendancy for it to get complacent and possibly go into a negative feedback stall ( at least that what I hope, no evidence one way of the other! LOL)

I know you and Isabelle are working on some fiendishly complex programme of all sorts of things, changing pretty much daily, but I prefer to keep it simple and that seems to be working for me.

Pansy Mae

[Pansy-Mae]

pansy-mae,

what is your PM to SP ratio? i'm thinking of adding SP to my regimen but i'm not sure how much to take.

are there any evidence that shows herbs in liquid form works better than pills form? they both have to be processed through the liver so i would imagine its the same.

I'm not 100% sure that SP is actually necessary, there certainly are folks on here who haven't taken it or take it occasionally and still have growth.
I started by taking 2 x450mg three times a day, but now I'm down to 1x 450mg morning and 2 x 450mg evening.

There are those who say that taking the herbs in extract form rather than powder works better, but I've also seen others who say it doesn't, so I don't really know. I think its just the same as some folks swear that a topical cream application works better but I'm just coming to the end of a 100g tube of PM cream and I've seen no evidence that it is better and I have a suspicion that it is either actually less effective or else needs a huge amout applied to be effective. I certainly have no intention of buying any more.

Pansy Mae

[beachbumbythesea]

I agree with you on the PM cream I bought ainterol and the only thing that it does for me is make them full feeling and then it goes away, unless it is needed to be used for a long time. I am planning on getting the extract and adding it to an oil or lotion, plus thinking of maybe getting the spray, I hard that works..

[Tinatina74]

My opinion, not positive.. I would not suggest it. PM is to help enhance breast growth adding fatty tissue. SP is used by women because it carries testosterone to help aid women with weight loss. Think about it this way, men have little body fat to them all around. Using both may just thin you out and lose what your body is trying to gain.

[Pansy-Mae]

My opinion, not positive.. I would not suggest it. PM is to help enhance breast growth adding fatty tissue. SP is used by women because it carries testosterone to help aid women with weight loss. Think about it this way, men have little body fat to them all around. Using both may just thin you out and lose what your body is trying to gain.

Sorry, you are of course entitled to your opinions, but I disagree with just about everything you've said here, at least as far as guys are concerned.

First of all PM is relatively strong ( for phyto-hormones) in several estrogen compounds and it therefore aids breast tissue development in genetic males, the fact that fat redistributes as well is a secondary effect not the primary function.

Secondly, SP inhibits the conversion of testosterone into DHT. DHT blocks the estrogen receptor sites and inhibits the binding of estrogen to create breast tissue, therefore this is beneficial to males trying to develop breasts. As a secondary effect, as I said above, it then allows the build up of testosterone which then aromatases into more estrogen.

Thirdly, and this is slightly less scientific I admit, it has been widely reported that PM leads to fat redistribution in the male body generally into a more female pattern, with it moving up to the breasts and also down to lower stomach, buttocks and thighs.
To my knowledge, nobody has ever reported losing weight with these herbs, in fact one of the standard warnings is that SP can cause weight gain!

However, to what extent these effects are significant for females trying to enhance what nature gave them ( or omitted to give them) I'm not qualified to say.

[Tinatina74]

My opinion, not positive.. I would not suggest it. PM is to help enhance breast growth adding fatty tissue. SP is used by women because it carries testosterone to help aid women with weight loss. Think about it this way, men have little body fat to them all around. Using both may just thin you out and lose what your body is trying to gain.

Sorry, you are of course entitled to your opinions, but I disagree with just about everything you've said here, at least as far as guys are concerned.

First of all PM is relatively strong ( for phyto-hormones) in several estrogen compounds and it therefore aids breast tissue development in genetic males, the fact that fat redistributes as well is a secondary effect not the primary function.

Secondly, SP inhibits the conversion of testosterone into DHT. DHT blocks the estrogen receptor sites and inhibits the binding of estrogen to create breast tissue, therefore this is beneficial to males trying to develop breasts. As a secondary effect, as I said above, it then allows the build up of testosterone which then aromatases into more estrogen.

Thirdly, and this is slightly less scientific I admit, it has been widely reported that PM leads to fat redistribution in the male body generally into a more female pattern, with it moving up to the breasts and also down to lower stomach, buttocks and thighs.
To my knowledge, nobody has ever reported losing weight with these herbs, in fact one of the standard warnings is that SP can cause weight gain!

However, to what extent these effects are significant for females trying to enhance what nature gave them ( or omitted to give them) I'm not qualified to say.

Thanks for clarifying from the biological male perspective. I can only go by testing that was done with biological female. Growth had stopped and some gain and inches were lost in both the buttocks and breasts.

[chrishoney]

You are right Pansy. In addition, SP does NOT contain testosterone. It is considered a mild anti-androgen and is most often recommended to older men to REDUCE their testosterone levels, which is believed to have a beneficial effect on prostate health.