[sweetpea]

Thank you so much Ginie! I don't know when I ovulate. I just took it for 15 days because that is what most people seem to do. It will probably be better if I start keeping a BBT chart. I have no idea how to do that, I'll look into it. So do you think I should wait to try PC? Maybe I was just overdosing on PM and my progesterone is not really low? Or should I get PC to balance my high estrogen levels now? Oh and I also wanted to ask you...if I use PC in the second half of my cycle, is it ok to use along with weaker phytoestrogens like FG and fennel, and also the PM cream?

Ok, I just looked up BBT charts...should I stop taking PM on the day my temperature rises or on the day I see a sharp drop?

[soonenough]

About overdosing. In my opinion yes, you overdosed. Even 4 pills a day is really A LOT when it comes to Siriporn. I find that their PM is stronger than St.Herb, for eample. This is why they recommend a lower dose. I was taking 1 in the morning and 1 in the evening and still my cycle was shorter. Taking 8 pills a day in MY opinion is bad. I don't know how much damage to your own body you've done, you can consult a doctor. But since it's only has been one cycle then maybe you can try and repair things yourself by not taking PM orally, just use their cream (which btw is also very strong, so, don't overload on that too).

You are so right, Ginie. I'm really glad you are an advocate of not taking too much PM all at once, rather, listen and carefully observe how taking PM affects your body and cycle. I, too, started with Siriporn pm at 2 pills a day on the first month. Right away, I noticed fullness although the increase did not register as an increase in tape measurement. I continued with 2 pills for 15 days, and played with 1 pill until day 21 and stopped, not wanting a repeat of my previous PM experience where I was delayed for 8 days.

Anyway, my period started on the 29th day, after stopping PM for 8 days, which was the same experience I had before. So on cycle 2, I started with 2 on days 1-5, and increased the dose to 3 pills a days on 6-8. Big, big mistake. On day 8 to day 12, I started experiencing most horrible palpating migraines, diarrhea, nausea, sensitivity to smell and sun. And I notice my weight will not budge, even though I'm eating less. I pay close attention to my weight, and there are things I do to keep it down that works for me, after let's say a night of eating out or a day of indulging. i go back to my targeted weight with no problem.

I stopped PM altogether and just used Robust and the Breast Active cream that I'm trying to finish. It took a day for all the symptoms above to disappear, and I went back down to my weight. So, all I can think I did was take that triple Siriporn PM dose on day 6-8. Three 100 mg is way, way too much for my body. I agree with you that Siriporn PM capsule is strong even at just mere 100 mg per capsule.

The same thing happened with their Robust. I applied the lotion 3 times yesterday, when I just normally apply it twice a day, and guess what, I had a headache again. What I did was use Siriporn twice before noogling, and applied for the third time after the second noogling session. Third time of using Robust for the same day triggered the headache back.

The thing is, my breasts are growing even when stopping PM pill. I've just been noogling once a day since I started using the NB XL cups, and only for an hour, and yet, the swelling is fantastic. I have been drinking a lot of water as I have bladder infection right now, so I don't know if that's contributing to the swelling. But it's day 16 for me, and I grew or hopefully, keep on growing. I'm at the point where I understand the importance of being careful with taking PM, and having experience the adverse effects, I'm okay with taking less and still believe that I can grow with less and continue to grow.

I'm really glad that you keep on repeatedly spreading the message that with PM, less is more and very effective. i also started BBT charting, per your influence, and it's exciting to see where I am in any given day on my cyle. I bought LadyComp, more for the purpose of natural birth control, as I'm approaching 47, and having not used any BC pills except for that one month after I got married 23 years ago, I'm scared of getting pregnant again. Every month, I anxiously wait for my period to come. Both sides of my parent's family, I have aunts who had their last babies at 47 and one at 48. So, BBT charting works for me, both to monitor where I am with my PM intake, and for birth control for me.

Thanks Ginie, for continuing to generously share what you know about NBE. You are such a valuable asset, and always excitedly read what you post.

[Ginie]

Hi Sweatpea, on the day when you see the drop in temperature. But you can also do as Soonenough did - continue with lower dose until day 21. I totally agree with Soonenougha and I couldn't say it better - you just have to be careful with PM, start with low doses and increase when you get more understanding how things work FOR YOU. We all are different and your hormonal status is not like mine or Soonenough, so I just hope that you'll be patient enough to figure out YOUW OWN way without doing too much harm to your body. I'm glad you diceded to do BBT charting. For me it's been the best thing I've done for myself, I prefer knowing what is going on, not guessing.

I don't know where in the cycle you are now but PC is OK to use in luteal phase. I think you should give your body time to recover after "PM attack". Use it until your period and then go back to your experiments with phytoestrogens. PC will make your estrogen receptors VERY sensitive, so, if you want to take phytoestrogens together with PC the results are unpredictable. You may become so sensitive to phytoestrogen that you'll get the symptoms of estrogen dominance very quickly. You may not. Nobody will tell you for sure, you just have to read more about PC and phytoestrogens. I never use PC together with phytoestrogens. If I use PC then the next cycle I react much more to PM.

[Ginie]

Hi Soonenough! Congratulations on your growth! I also enjoy reading your posts! BBT charting is great, isn't it? I like it too even though I sometimes forget to measure. And sometimes I travel and don't get enough sleep for the temperature to show the real result.

It's so good to read about your experience with different doses! You have shown others that it's OK to experiment but it's imprtant to analyze the problem and not repeat the same mistake! Btw, Chiyumilk once was taking PM pills with the same ingredient as Siriporn is using. She stopped after two months and the only comment was "it was too strong for me". I wish I could email her and ask about the details.

You know, you've just confirmed what I was thinking. T[/color]opicals DO have systemic effect! It is said everywhere that topicals only work on breasts and nothing gets into your system. I find it to be not true. You know I had a bottle of their "serum" which turned out to be just oil. I didn't know what to do with it because it just doesn't get absorbed. So I started using it with NB and that effected my cycle and I also got PMS symptoms which I usually didn't get. That's because I overdosed on topical PM. At that time I was also using Robust lotion twice a day. So adding "serum" was making it too much. I seriously thing topicals do have systemic effect.

I also noticed that breasts grow even when I stop PM. Maybe it gets sort of accumilated in a body for a while and it takes time to flush it out.

Your words listen and carefully observe how taking PM affects your body and cycle[color=#FF0000] are the golden rule!

And also these words: I'm at the point where I understand the importance of being careful with taking PM, and having experience the adverse effects, I'm okay with taking less and still believe that I can grow with less and continue to grow.

Sometimes I think that PM is really "designed" by nature for post-menopausal women. They can take it throughout the month without having any side effects. It is safe for them. But those of us who ovulate should be really careful and find your own way to take it without damaging cycle.

[sweetpea]

Thanks for the great advice! I'll use PC alone for now to be safe! I have a good feeling about PC. I read in another thread that estrogen makes your breasts conical and progesterone makes them round. My boobs used to be nice and round, but they don't look very nice anymore and my nipples are puffy. They seem to be smaller than before even when I gain weight. I guess that must be because I am estrogen dominant and that is keeping me from growing. So I think I do need the progesterone and that it will help NBE work for me. Thanks for helping me understand what is going on with my hormones, I feel so hopeful now.

[luisa]

Hi Ginie,

First of all, congratulations on your growth! You have inspired a lot of people on this forum.

I have gone ahead and finally ordered a NB because of your great feedback of using PM and NB together. I am really excited. I breastfed my daughter for 9 and a half months so hopefully I will be able to get some swelling relatively quickly. I believe you mentioned that you use the serum from Siriporn for noogling. I was considering ordering it specifically for noogling and wanted to ask if you would recommend using the two together. Have you noticed better growth/swelling once you added the serum for noogling?

Finally, you mentioned above that you would like to contact Chiyomilk. Not sure if you have seen Wahaika's post where he mentions a possibility of contacting Chiyomilk and provides a link:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8294&page=7

Apparently, she also sells products and I know that you prefer certain Japanese products for NBE.

[Ginie]

Wow, thanks, Luisa, it would be so great if I could actually ask her about the first year of her NBE. She (as far as I understand) was doing something else, not the routine she describes. And during that time she achieved really FAST growth! If I manage to get the answer I will write about it.

Well, that was the only thing I could do with "serum", it is just oil. It is good for massage and for NB but that's all. It doesn't get absorbed and you will ruin your clothes if you dress after using it. They say it is their "most potent" product. Who knows.. All I can say is that when I was using lotion in the morning, serum for noogling and then again lotion before going to bed, then I was getting really sore and I experienced pains (I never had growing pains before that). And even PMS symptoms. I thought it was because of too much PM and reduced topicals to just lotion in the morning and "serum"/oil for noogling, the pains were gone and soreness was less though didn't disappear completely. The swelling was getting better gradually, so I can't attribute it to this serum only. When I started I couldn't even get a good succion, then there was NO swelling for what seems like ages, well, maybe few weeks. Then the swelling started showing, t[/u]hen more and more and then it was sticking around. I advise you to noogle twice a day. Huge difference! I know how time consuming it is but try and do it at least once - you will see what I mean. The swelling is better in luteal phase. I also notice tha HA helps.

[nikkki]

Genie, I have a nine month supply of Bountiful Breast pills sitting in my fridge... ever since you said that I am too young to start it and how it could possibly stunt my growth permanetantly i havent wanted to take it.... but i feel i wasted so much oney on it and i really want to try it.... but i sont want to be permanetlly stop growing.. ugh.. I when to GNC and they didnt have EFA..? and I bought a NB but it just swells then goes back down.. im doing massages but i feel like im doing them wrong.. if only here was a video of it.. hah that would help.. should i take the BB now..? idk.. I cant find chicken feet out here.. abd BT charting? i still dont understand that.. is there a webste i can do that at? or do i go to a doctor to test my hormone levels?... thank you for beng so helpful I would have never even thought about NB and the effects of BB if it wrent for you. OH and im taking collagen... what ddoes that do again?

[luisa]

Hi Ginie, I would be also very interested to know what she did during that first year!

Many thanks for the tips! I am already taking HA and should be able to pump more than once a day. I will try not to get to upset if I do not get swelling immidiately based on your experience.

[Ginie]

Hi Nikki, don't get discouraged, it's too soon for any (ANY) NBE to show results! With NB in the beginning everyone is experiencing exactly what you wrote - swelling which goes down after a while. But with time the more will stick around. And then more and more! Just go see what people are saying at NB forum.

I personally don't like the idea of a young girl taking BO because it's a fact that BO lowers FSH and this is a good news for a menopausal women but what will it do to young girls? Well, if you can't return it then you may try it though I think it will take time too.

It sounds like you're looking for a "miracle pill" which you just pop and then go to bed and then wake up with large boobs. Nothing works like that, no matter if it is BO or herbs or NB. It takes a lot of efforts, reading, analyzing, etc. And time! And also most who had good results combined two or more methods, like me. NB + herbs, NB + Hypnosis, herbs + hypnosis, etc.

It is always good to have your hormones checked. If you can do it then it is ideal.

BBT charting is not that difficult, do you really have problems understanding it? There're thousands of sites explaining how it works. It is very simple - just measure your temperature every morning before getting up. You should have not less than 6 hrs sleep before that. This temperature is called Basal. Then draw a chart using your daily readings. Then compare it to the charts online. You will be able to tell when you ovulate (if you ovulate), when you have high estrogen and high progesterone, so on. Here's just one example:
http://www.fertilitygal.com/BBTChart/Bas...rature.htm

Chicken feet is idea for you. Are there any asian markets? Asian grocery shops? If not then take collagen, it helps building many different tissues in your body, including breasts. Collagen powder works better, take it with vit C.

Massage every day, use Fengshui's massage and just rotations.

Don't stress, stress kills all growth. I know how you feel. It is so heartbreaking to see no change day after day. But if you're consistanly follow your routine then you WILL have results. Unfortunately in NBE it takes years to achieve a good growth. If anyone says different - don't believe a word they say. YEARS! It takes years. Quick solution is called implants.

So relax and choose the program which you will be able to follow for a long time.

There's one use here, Wahaika, he knows a lot about NBE, he helped his wife grow boobs. Maybe ask him, let's see what he says (ask him about BO too) , what is safe for a very young girl. Maybe he will suggest low doses herbs?

My advise is the same: massage, EFA, NB, plenty of sleep, chicken feet and othe "booby friendly food" (you can find the list in Fengshui's program page), msm, hypnosis. Anything else will mess with your developing fertility system. This is just my opinion.