[Omi]

Hi Girls

About 3 days ago I began Fenugreek Tea ^^. I have been drinking it through out the day. I normally just boil 1 bag and when finished I add water again and reboil. One bag can be boiled about 2 days before the seeds lose that Fenugreek taste. I Did not notice any difference at all during the first and second day. However, today, after waking up, I noticed a slight tingly sensation on my nipples . After reading some posts here it looks to be a good sign! Woohoo! I must be drinking plenty of Fenugreek because even I smell like it! You know, that sweet almost honey like smell? I think it is kind of nice.

So, yeah! I have felt that, but nothing else really. Perhaps a slight feeling of fullness , but that could be just me. Anyway, I also use this gel called Oestraclin, which from what I gathered is the same as estrogel. The name difference is because I bought this one from Spain . But anyway, I apply 1/4th of the recommended dosage on each of my palms (1/2 Dosage total both hands together) then rub it in. Before the gel fully evaporates, and it does this rather quickly!, I rub what is left over my boobs. I have noticed that the gel does make my skin softer and, how can I put it uhm, puffy and plump. It also makes my nipples more sensitive and I think my areolas got a little larger or puffier.

Anyway, I actually do not apply the whole Gel directly on my boobs. The last, uh, three times I did this my breasts became REALLY tender! I actually felt breast discomfort and just could not stand it . It almost felt like I was having a strong period, but only on my bewbs , lol. However! I found that if I first rub the Gel on my palms, and sometimes top of my feet too, it will lessen enough that I can apply it to by boobs. This way I no longer get any breast tenderness. Yet, my breasts still get that puffy, filled, look. And like I mentioned before, it almost looks like my areolas got a little bigger! .

So, I think thus far things are going along well. I think I read that Fennel is also a good herb to take. Should I include it into my regimen? I also have some Milk Thistle which I hear is good for your liver, but that it can also help the breast growth. Oh! and I ordered some Pro-Gest cream which I have read that it too can help breast growth.

As for me I wear a 36B bra. Though... some websites online have suggested I wear from as low as 38AA to 38D one site suggest 34DD/34E! I am nowhere that big. If anything I think I am for toward 36A. I basically have no volume with my breasts. I am actually pretty tall at around 5'10" - 5'11"! I've always had Low Estrogen Issues which according to a doctor is what caused for my taller than average height .

[Isabelle]

Hi Omi,

If low estrogen is the issue, don't use Pro-gest or fennel (a phyto-progestin). Milk thistle is used on the forum for a liver cleanse: one month using only milk thistle, and no estrogens, after three months of NBE.

[Omi]

Hi Isabelle!

Sorry, I kind of typed my post on a rush when I did so . I always had low hormonal issues. I know for sure I suffer from low estrogen levels. Though I do not think I ever herd my doctor mention if I had low Progesterone levels too. I kind of think I do ~ because my breasts never really fully developed; well, I do no think so! I do not believe I ever reached the final taner? Tanner? stage, and I have tubular breasts .

Like, my breasts have no fullness and there is, like, an areola mound on top of my breast. So, the areola sticks out. I am a tanner stage 4 with the flatness of a tanner stage 2? something like that.

So anyway, can I ask why I should stay away from the Progesterone, and Progesterone-like molecules? I thought Progesterone was supposed to make the Estrogen receptors more sensitive and help with breast growth.

Thanks for your reply!

[Isabelle]

Hi Omi,

Progesterone may help for tubular breasts. But it is still wiser to work on one at a time. Your brain measures total sex hormones, and if there are too much, it decreases LH to stop production of sex hormones. In other words, you will stall easier if you use estrogens and progesterone together.

Cycling them is better: peak estrogen in the first half of your cycle, and progesterone in the second half.

[Omi]

Hi Isabelle!

Then will it be all right if I use the Progesterone Cream for 14-15 days then stop, and switch to the Estrogen Gel for the last 14-15 days? Do I need to make any adjustments with the Fenugreek tea I have been drinking through out the day? Should I be careful of drinking too much Fenugreek tea ? I ask because so far I have basically been drinking the tea when ever I normally drink water. How many cups have I drank a day? I actually have not kept count... but perhaps around 120 - 160 oz or more?

Should I consider adding any other herbal supplement to my routine? Will drinking a fennel seed tea cause my hormones to go out of whack? Is fennel that powerful?

Thanks Isabelle!

[Isabelle]

Hi Omi,

Rather the other way round. Day 1 is the first day of your period. Stop estrogen gel two days before you ovulate. If you have a 28 day cycle, you ovulate around day 14, so stop estrogen gel on day 12. Start FG after ovulation, and stop on day 24. Make the tea from no more than 3,000 mg of dry, powdered FG seeds for one day. You can take FN on the same days as FG, but no more than 2 cups, if you make a whole pot from 2,000 mg dry powdered FN seeds. Keep the pot in the fridge.

Don't add anything: this is already strong stuff!

[Omi]

Hi Isabelle!

Thank you! You are so helpful ! My menstrual cycles have always been irregular because of my hormonal issues . I will just follow the example you gave me. One thing is that the Fenugreek tea I have has individual tea bags for making tea. I am not exactly sure how many MGs each individual tea bag has . Though after looking at the supplement fact label it does say: Fenugreek seed whole 5g. Serving Size 5 g (1 Tea bag). Imported from India. Botanic Gardens Inc. I do not have any Fennel tea, but I can get some from the store. If I were to drink more than 2 cups of Fenugreek and Fennel tea would it be dangerous ? Will it be suppressive to my already poor hormones lol? Are these herbal supplements powerful enough to shut down the hormone system??? I've read that women in India, I think, eat Fenugreek or fennel seeds? Making them buxom?! Not sure how much and how often, but I thought because of that it would be okay to drink the tea everyday with out any problems. Should I also use the Progesterone on the same time frame suggested for the Fennel and Fenugreek?

Sorry if I missed anything important. Sometimes I just read past important things with out noticing. I hope I got it mostly right! Thanks Isabelle!

[Isabelle]

Hi Omi,

Be very careful with your schedule, and keep a journal. Your menstrual cycles will become even more irregular on PM, unless you find a really good schedule. You will probably have to modify what I wrote, over time. Learn the lists of symptoms, and check daily if your program needs adjusting.

5 g is 5,000 mg. So 1 teabag is enough FG for two days of tea.

If you were to drink more than 2 cups of Fenugreek and Fennel tea, you would notice symptoms of progesterone dominance or hyperprolactinemia. I linked the lists of symptoms in my program thread. The dangerous effects are too much cortisol from the progesterone (you will grow a spare tyre around your waist) and osteoporosis from too much prolactin. You'll know if you break your hip at age 80. Therefore: never steer prolactin higher than you need to.

Herbs are powerful enough to mess up your whole hormone system. I'm very careful, and I already had it once in the last two months. I know women in certain areas in India eat hands full of FG seeds for desert. Most of them don't live up to age 80 to break their hips.

Use the Progesterone on the same time frame suggested for the Fennel and Fenugreek, yes.

[Omi]

Hi Isabelle!

Thank you once more for your enlightenment on my questions . I read that Fenugreek can have an impact on your sugar level if you are diabetic. I am not diabetic, but I was wondering if taking too much of it, or just some, could mess up your sugar (Glucose?) even if you are healthy . My moms sister is a diabetic, but she was over weight due to always drinking a case of coke or pepsi every week for years . I don't drink any soda or coffee and I try my best to stay away from sweets. When ever I need a sweet I intake a little bit of honey.

Anyway, I was wondering just by how much does Fenugreek increase your prolactin levels? It must be dosage dependant, but are there any studies that point to ng/ml levels? All I could find was http://www.prostate.net/wp-content/uploa...-study.pdf Two 300mg capsules per day and the results for Prolactin went from 6.44 ng/ml to 10.95 ng/ml. Oddly the placebo also went up to 10.95 ng/ml. So it makes me wonder if it really had been the Fenugreek capsules? I cannot seem to find another study with blood results comparing pre/after prolacting levels.

[Isabelle]

Hi Omi,

FG is anti-diabetic. If you're worried about diabetes, use it. GR may even be better.

There is something about prolactin increase at the bottom of this patent publication:
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2008/0199517.html
600 mg/day of fenugreek resulted in a 70 % increase in prolactin to 10.95 ng/ml.