[beachbumbythesea]

Good morning Susan,

Thank you for the complete program update. Looks like you are getting ready for a long ramp up
Goodmorning Isabelle,

I was going to ask you a question about dose. How do I know how much of each to take, especially maca cause of the testosterone.


No, goat's rue does not make me feel tired like fenugreek. Fenugreek makes the pancreas shoot insulin in the blood stream. Insulin converts blood sugar to energy, until it runs out. When blood sugar is low, you feel tired.
Good no tireness with GR..Thank you for the explaination of FG, now that makes sense. Yesterday I didnt have too much in cravings. I took maca then an hour later FG, then at night before bed I took my last FG, can I take all at once or better to spread out.


I take just enough fenugreek to give me some progesterone, to prevent estrogen dominance. The rest of the swelling, I get from three mugs of goat's rue.

From what you wrote I guess I should take GR first then later in the day add the FG..well till I get the GR, dont have yet.

Flax seed is 20 % oil. For my experiment, I take 30 g of flax seed. 20 % of 30 g is 6 g, or 6,000 mg. All omega-3 oils (flax, fish, cod liver) are good for waist slimming. Keep in mind Wahaika's warning that fish oil stops NBE. Cod liver oil is better.

That is why I am going to rotate them plus I bought in the cooking isle flax oil to add to food to balance, plus I am not going to take too much EFA's, I havent been taking any for at least a month now.. took the mixed EFA one last night.

You are right about the difference between soy and flax. Other than that, soy slows the thyroid, so take iodine (in kelp or enriched salt) and L-tyrosine (that's in your aminoacid blend). Flax has so many side effects I'm still trying to figure it out, in my fourth flax experiment now. I wrote about the pros and cons here:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=38120#pid38120
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=39200#pid39200

Ok maybe it is too early to sink in but when I read the links I didnt notice any cons. Did I read it right that flax and soy help with free testosterone and this is also known as androgens? I have seaweed sheets and powdered L-tyrosine..how do I know my thyroid is low, I know I had hypothyroid in the past, not anymore but in the being when I had I didnt know it.

You are putting together a great full body massage oil there. When the active ingredients are inside your skin, you'll be ready for a winter swim in the sea

Well, yesterday I made a quick mix with cayenne pepper and it didnt have much heat feeling..anything else I can use to give it that warm feeling like when you put bengay on..haha thought about using some of that..

I'm still in doubt about pumping. I trust that it works, and that it's great for the shape. But the time commitment, and the male pumpers all over the web everywhere. They pump... erm... something else. I live alone. Suppose I'd have to call an ambulance hanging from a machine that pumps all I got

Haha...funny Well I have been pumping the smaller one L and I have noticed it getting close to the size of the R, and it feels like the R one thick and meaty.. I will take new pics and see if others notice and dif.

Going back to dose and when to take. I was thinking taking one maca first thing in the morn, then take FG and drink FN a little after then midday take the rest of the maca, then when I get my other herbs take GR inbetween and hops just before bed, as for the tumeric I will def. take some just before bed cause it helps me feel good the next day, but I guess I should experiment with what I have now and when the other herbs come add slow until I get sensations like Wahaika's ramping chart suggests. What do you suggest. All my herbs are in powder form.

[beachbumbythesea]

Hey Isabelle,

Another question, ghee surprise I reread your explaination of maca and I know my DHT is high cause of my chin hairs, cant wait for the hops like you mentioned would counteract that..correct? is SP the only one other then hops that would help that androgen, there are different androgens ..correct? Also I was thing of the craving from FG being strong a few days ago, I believe my body was adjusting to the changes and I didnt take in low doses at first which I should have. I believe know I need more estrogen just a gut, cause when I had my coffee and cig I felt some twinges in my right tita..so I will be eating some flax and some soymilk today and see what happens. Ok done for the moment with questions

[Isabelle]

Hi Susan,

You have to build up dose. If you take too much maca early on, you will get symptoms of too high DHT and too much estrogens. Start low. If you get symptoms of DHT (break outs, high libido, chin hair), decrease maca. If you get symptoms of estrogen dominance, increase fenugreek, or decrease maca. I keep hops at 2,500 mg, and adjust maca and fenugreek for the balances.

I take all my fenugreek in one go at noon. Because it has a strong effect on blood sugar, you may be right that it's better to spread it out. I just take advantage by having my carbs at the same time as fenugreek.

You also may be right to take goat's rue first then later in the day add the fenugreek. First improve sensitivity to insulin, then bring on the insulin. Makes sense.

I like the idea of rotating EFAs. The reason I use 30 g of flax seed now is I really want to know if it's good or bad. The cons of flax are the increase in SHBG and the inhibition of aromatase. More SHBG from flax and soy binds more free testosterone. You are right, that will decrease androgens. But the downside is that aromatase can only convert free testosterone to estrogens. I prefer to have some free testosterone, and enough anti-androgen to block 5α-reductase, so the free testosterone cannot become DHT.

It's a good thing you have seaweed sheets and powdered L-tyrosine. You are well equipped to feel when your thyroid is slow. The symptoms, looking from the outside, are the same as ADD. But ADD feels more like scattered thinking inside your brain, while a slow thyroid makes it difficult to focus attention because of lack of energy. Feels more like you need the coffee to wake up, than to gather your thoughts. I don't know if those are the right words to describe it, but it's how I'm trying to understand my younger daughter.

I don't know how to make an instant warming oil. But cayenne pepper improves blood circulation. Great for arthritis too. The fish oil soaks into the upper layer of your skin. It insulates. It also makes your skin all shiny and water repellant. I used to be out all night in winter wearing only a skimpy drag outfit, all on 4,000 mg fish oil.

My breasts are evening out in size too, from growth. But I'm sure pumping is the way to fix uneven development fast. Looking forward to the new pics

So you take
one maca first thing in the morning,
then take FG
and drink FN a little after
then midday take the rest of the maca,
then when you get the other herbs take GR inbetween
and hops just before bed,
take some tumeric just before bed to feel good the next day.
You are right, you should experiment with what you have now and when the other herbs come add slowly. I really needed to experiment to get good energy all day. Still wondering if fenugreek at 3 pm would be better then at noon, just to prevent cravings.

Hops would counteract chin hair, yes. Especially undigested, as in tea 15 minutes before a meal, or two hours after. Saw Palmetto is not the only one other than hops that would help. There are different anti-androgens, like xanthohumol in hops, β-sitosterol in PM, secoisolariciresinol diglycoside in flax, azelaic acid in barley grass, zinc, vitamin B6. It could take a while to try them all out.

I'm trying to take fenugreek at a time that moves the craving to the time of the next meal. Still experimenting. I'm also testing flax, and will be testing soy later, because hops alone may be too little phyto-estrogen.

[Isabelle]

Hi Susan,

You have to build up dose. If you take too much maca early on, you will get symptoms of too high DHT and too much estrogens. Start low. If you get symptoms of DHT (break outs, high libido, chin hair), decrease maca. If you get symptoms of estrogen dominance, increase fenugreek, or decrease maca. I keep hops at 2,500 mg, and adjust maca and fenugreek for the balances.

I take all my fenugreek in one go at noon. Because it has a strong effect on blood sugar, you may be right that it's better to spread it out. I just take advantage by having my carbs at the same time as fenugreek.

You also may be right to take goat's rue first then later in the day add the fenugreek. First improve sensitivity to insulin, then bring on the insulin. Makes sense.

I like the idea of rotating EFAs. The reason I use 30 g of flax seed now is I really want to know if it's good or bad. The cons of flax are the increase in SHBG and the inhibition of aromatase. More SHBG from flax and soy binds more free testosterone. You are right, that will decrease androgens. But the downside is that aromatase can only convert free testosterone to estrogens. I prefer to have some free testosterone, and enough anti-androgen to block 5α-reductase, so the free testosterone cannot become DHT.

It's a good thing you have seaweed sheets and powdered L-tyrosine. You are well equipped to feel when your thyroid is slow. The symptoms, looking from the outside, are the same as ADD. But ADD feels more like scattered thinking inside your brain, while a slow thyroid makes it difficult to focus attention because of lack of energy. Feels more like you need the coffee to wake up, than to gather your thoughts. I don't know if those are the right words to describe it, but it's how I'm trying to understand my younger daughter.

I don't know how to make an instant warming oil. But cayenne pepper improves blood circulation. Great for arthritis too. The fish oil soaks into the upper layer of your skin. It insulates. It also makes your skin all shiny and water repellant. I used to be out all night in winter wearing only a skimpy drag outfit, all on 4,000 mg fish oil.

My breasts are evening out in size too, from growth. But I'm sure pumping is the way to fix uneven development fast. Looking forward to the new pics

So you take
one maca first thing in the morning,
then take FG
and drink FN a little after
then midday take the rest of the maca,
then when you get the other herbs take GR inbetween
and hops just before bed,
take some tumeric just before bed to feel good the next day.
You are right, you should experiment with what you have now and when the other herbs come add slowly. I really needed to experiment to get good energy all day. Still wondering if fenugreek at 3 pm would be better then at noon, just to prevent cravings.

Hops would counteract chin hair, yes. Especially undigested, as in tea 15 minutes before a meal, or two hours after. Saw Palmetto is not the only one other than hops that would help. There are different anti-androgens, like xanthohumol in hops, β-sitosterol in PM, secoisolariciresinol diglycoside in flax, azelaic acid in barley grass, zinc, vitamin B6. It could take a while to try them all out.

I'm trying to take fenugreek at a time that moves the craving to the time of the next meal. Still experimenting. I'm also testing flax, and will be testing soy later, because hops alone may be too little phyto-estrogen.

[beachbumbythesea]

Hey Isabelle,

I know in other post you explained what you take but maca wasnt mentioned much at that time.. could you give me a rundown of what you take and when. I know you did above but can you give more detail, with food.. and also what kinds of foods you eat. I know your supps and mainly a multi and that is about it. Sorry and thank you. or if you have all that done give link or links..

One more thing you wrote something about NBE and GABA, GABA not good can you find the link or rewrite that explaination..Thank you so much

[Isabelle]

Hi Susan,

What I wrote about GABA is here:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=39276#pid39276

My diet varies a lot. Today, my two younger kids were here, and we have a long dinner then.

8 a.m. 5,000 mg red maca root flour in water with a hair skin nails multi
8:30 a.m. two cups of jasmin tea with the kids
9 a.m. 200 ml goat's rue tea from 1,300 mg dried leaves
10 a.m. 200 g cheese
12 a.m. 2,300 mg powdered fenugreek seed in water, 200 ml goat's rue tea
3 p.m. two cups of jasmin tea with the kids, with cookies
6 p.m. sushi
9 p.m. 200 ml goat's rue tea and jasmin tea
10 p.m. 2,500 mg hops and 30 g flax seed with honey, raisins, and cereals in milk

The jasmin tea is to get our intestines moving, because we make sushi with white rice. Brown rice isn't sticky enough. We use egg, surimi crab sticks, avocado, cucumber, carrot, Japanese horse radish pasta, soy sauce, rice vinegar and Japanese mayonaise. Staple foods I always have here are milk, eggs, cereals, honey, raisins, cheese, cottage cheese, and boiled ham.

After three days with the kids, tomorrow is a day for running, and Wednesday and Friday are for walking. I used to take apples when out, but my tree is empty now, and I ran out of walnuts too. I need to get more apples, and lettuce.

This may look austere, but the day before yesterday I was at Burger King with my elder daughter, and yesterday at a Chinese with her. Friday, I'm dining out with her and her boyfriend and his parents and my ex. She may also be here for studying tomorrow and Wednesday, so I don't know what we'll eat yet. The rest of the week has to be really low carb. I still have half a loaf of bread here, but most likely won't touch it.

[beachbumbythesea]

Goodmorning Isabelle,

Thank you very much for writing dose and when you take your herbs, it is like I thought to do it and it makes sense in that order. Have a great time with your kids.

Still tired so will get back later..

[beachbumbythesea]

Yesterday evening, I decreased hops again from 3 to 2 tablespoons, or 3,000 mg. I added broken brown flax seed, 30 g, which is a little over two tablespoons. Tomorrow, I'll buy more goat's rue, so I can drink three mugs of goat's rue tea again, from 4,000 mg. I've been drinking only one for nearly a week now, and upped fenugreek to compensate. But after tomorrow night, everything will be back to normal in my program, except for the flax seed.

Two weeks ago, I had experimented with flax seed for a week, and I measured nearly 1" bigger. Before that, each time I experimented with flax seed, it added something too. But as I wrote two weeks ago, flax has so many different effects, that it's hard to tell what the net overall result will be. Even if the flax experiment shows miracle results when I measure again two weeks from now, it will be hard to predict what it will do for someone else, in another program.

Eve M used both flax and oats. Large amounts of flax increase Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG), and oats decrease it again. That's convenient, because if the SHBG binds to all the free testosterone, aromatase can't make estrogens from the testosterone any more. Just plain oat flakes from the breakfast cereals wing in the supermarket also contain, per 100 g, 3.6 g beta glucan, .33 mg vitamin B6, 60 mcg folic acid, and 110 mg magnesium, among others. That will make a great substitute for the sweetened cereals in my hops evening porridge, but no earlier than two weeks from now. I really must make a habit of changing no more than one thing at a time in my program: how else am I going to learn?

Hi Isabelle,

You said your grow on the flax seed did that growth stay?

[Isabelle]

Good afternoon Susan,

Yes, the growth on flax seed stayed. But I never really tried it without changing anything else in my program. That's why I do a flax experiment now. A high dose (30 g) of flax every day for two weeks, keeping everything else the same. Monday is my tape day.

[beachbumbythesea]

Hi Isabelle,

Cool..thats good to know..was it flaxseed ground, flaxseed oil, and is there a difference between the 2, that may be a dumb question, I think there is more in the ground flaxseed..ok just came to me duhhh oil from the seeds..for course the ground has more to it.. another question why did you stop taking glucosamine..