[lostacres6]

I starte d FG/WY/SP (Greenbush) on 8/6/11, added fennel 480 mg on 9/2/11 & GR 4 caps. on 9/11/11. Used topical of same from Greenbush. Added 2 Zoft gums daily on 11/8/11. Started PM topical twice daily on 11/24/11. Started hops 11/26/11 but stopped 12/17/11 cause it cause me to feel like crying all the time. Take MSM 2000mg. & Collagen too. Was having regular tingling (almost painful times) sensations til about 2 weeks ago then all sensations stopped. I have not grown in all this time either. (I judge growth by how my bras fit - the same bra for fit. No change.).
Am I taking too many herbs or not enough? Is the combination the right one or not? Would appreciate any info that can put me on the right program.

[BelaBrasil]

The herbs you are taking work, but you have to consider WHEN you take these herbs, not just what and how much.

It's good to cycle your herbs to mimic your natural cycle of sex hormone (estrogen and progesterone). There is a lot of information on this forum about cycling the right way.

It's also good to understand exactly what the herbs you are taking do to your body, so you know what you need to change.

Fenugreek causes swelling, which can eventually turn to growth after some time. Saw Palmetto provides DHEA, which is converted into testosterone (don't let this freak you out!) Estrogen is converted from testosterone, and DHT is as well (this is what I like to call the male hormone. It is in charge of hair growth, breakouts, and libido). Wild Yam is a reductase that blocks DHT from being produced, so more estrogen is produced from testosterone, rather than DHT. I personally despise Saw Palmetto, but I'm a case of bad experience. It works for others however, and each person is different! Because Greenbush is all blended, it's hard to just cut it out of your regimen.

This is all fine and well, but in my opinion, if you are expecting some real, fast changes, you need to start taking a phytoestrogen. Hops was one, but you're not the first to complain about the weepiness caused by it. If you don't feel like taking a stronger phytoestrogen like PM orally (I think it's the best way to take it. I believe a lot supplements are more effective after digestion), you can choose to take hops only at night. Weepiness won't bother you if you're sleeping. Hops is also used as a natural sleep aid, so it works out

I don't know much about fennel, except that it is a progesterone. Progesterones are good to take only during the luteal phase of your cycle. If taken during the follicular phase (the during which growth occurs through estrogen), it can stop growth all together.

MSM and collage are great to take. You should also consider L-arginine. I swear by it. idreamofD grew A LOT in a very short amount of time, and she was taking 10,000 mg of the stuff.

[lostacres6]

Thanks so much BelaBrasil for taking time to answer my questions.
I am 9 yrs post menopausal so I have no cycles. Should I cycle the herbs anyhow as if I was menstruating? If I switch to PM, should I take it 30 days a month (at which dose) or should I also cycle it? I've read some use PM or 15 days & FG/WY/SP the other 15. Should I do that?
I did take the hops at bedtime. It was an elixir & had no strength on the bottle - only directions to take 30-40 drops twice a day. I took 40 drops at bedtime. It made me very weepy the next day - all day. Since I stopped it, I'm feeling better but still not 100%.
If I was growing, I would put up with any side effects.

[BelaBrasil]

It all depends on you

When I first started out, I had to play with everything for a couple of months to get everything right. Technically yes, because you are post-menopausal you could take PM every single day, but it would be a good idea to take a break every couple of months so that you don't stall your growth.
You can take it at the recommended dose. A lot of people here in the forum take Ainterol 1000mg/d. Some take Siriporn. Others take different ones. It's all up to you. Ainterol, to my knowledge, is the cheapest and quite a few people have had good experiences with it, myself included.
The 15/15 plan could be good too, but I wouldn't see any point in robbing your body of the extra estrogen if it's not going to mess with any periods. I believe that's the main reason why PM is cycled in the first place.
I don't know much about the need for progesterone and when it should be taken in menopausal women, so you should contact Wahaika or Isabelle about it. They are both extremely intelligent about the hormones and very willing to help.

The Fenugreek in GB would cause the swelling, and WY and SP together would just increase the amount of estrogen on top of the PM, but not really a substantial amount. But...

Something I like to tell people is something that really isn't brought up a lot to new people, though I wish it was, because I believe it's one of the biggest problems for people that aren't seeing any growth.
Your body can have as much estrogen as it wants to, but will not be able to do anything with it without the building blocks to make the cells for the boobage!

You've got the MSM and collagen. "MSM makes cell wall permeable, allowing water and nutrients to freely flow into cells and allowing waters and toxins to properly flow out. The building blocks of the body, amino acids are all sulfur binders and play a major role in the production of hormones and enzymes, which regulate the body’s activities" and L-arginine stimulates the release of growth hormone! I did not see much growth at all until I started L-Arginine.

[lostacres6]

THANKS AGAIN!!!
I DID HAVE L-ARGININE IN STOCK - 900 MG PER CAP. I IMMEDIATELY TOOK 2 & WILL TAKE 2 MORE TONIGHT. I ALSO TAKE GABA & HGH. THE HGH HAS 628 MG OF L ARGININE IN IT TOO SO IT COMES OUT TO ABOUT 4200 MG. I'LL SEE WHAT HAPPENS & MAYBE THE 1ST OF THE YEAR I'LL START PM. I ORDERED THE AINTEROL ABOUT 2 WEEKS AGO BUT WANTED INPUT BEFORE STARTING.
AGAIN THANKS.

[BelaBrasil]

L-arginine does not start producing HGH until 10g/d, so eventually start to ramp up to that. It's also a lot cheaper than actually buying HGH. Are you taking HGH orally? I heard HGH does not work orally because it's not a digestible kind of thing. It needs to be produced naturally in your body. Or does the 'HGH' you have just contain supplements that help produce it in the body?

[Angela531]

I don't know much about fennel, except that it is a progesterone. Progesterones are good to take only during the luteal phase of your cycle. If taken during the follicular phase (the during which growth occurs through estrogen), it can stop growth all together.

MSM and collage are great to take. You should also consider L-arginine. I swear by it. idreamofD grew A LOT in a very short amount of time, and she was taking 10,000 mg of the stuff.

Hey BelaBrasil, could you explain when exactly the luteal phase occurs? From what I've read online, the follicular phase occurs when you begin your period. How long does it last to and when does the luteal phase occur and end? I think this info would really help me in tweaking my regimen. I've been drinking fennel tea but you said to only take it during the luteal phase so I'd like to know when that is. Also, is it ok to take fenugreek and saw palmetto all month or should those be cycled as well? If so, when is the best time to take them? Thanks!

Oh, also, what brand of L-arginine do you take?

[lostacres6]

Hello BelaBrasil,
The HGH I take is called GHR Essentials (from Swanson). It has the usual amino acids and Mucuna pruriens extract which from what I understand increases L dopa which releases GH. So, no, it is not really GH but a GH releaser. At 61, I produce little GH on my own unlike younger women.
Thanks again for your interest and info.

[jiberish]

It is illegal to buy HGH, as it is like an anabolic steroid. Any product you buy claiming to be HGH is other stuff which MAY increase it.

Arginine taken orally has been proven ineffective at raising growth hormones. The studies that proved it, had it infused directly.