[beachbumbythesea]

Hey Isabelle,

Thank you..and was I correct not to take anything else with the PM and maca until the correct cycle time..no FG or GR until around ovulation..Thank you again.

[Isabelle]

Good morning Susan,

I hope you are feeling better.

Hops allergy is maybe not the only problem, so I'm afraid you have to simplify your program to really find out what was wrong. So yes, you are right about not taking others wit the PM. FG is for after ovulation.

GR is good for all month, but too much prolactin can stop periods, so it's not wise to take it in the two days before ovulation. PM suppresses prolactin, so taking it together with GR becomes pricey, because you need more GR.

Hope this helps

[beachbumbythesea]

Googmorning Isabelle,

Yes feeling much better. I took a melatonin last night, dont think it helped much still woke up in the middle of the night..not going to take it anymore either..just a feeling not too..just from what I have been reading about it..anyway so why do you think it is wasnt just hops..so far all my symtoms are gone almost immediately sp? of course the rash on my finger is still there but getting better hard for that to heal fast with washing hands and dishes everyday.. I am wondering if any kind of weed or grass makes these symtoms too..cause when I smoked weed I would get a bad reaction too as for grasses it is possible too cause they warn about allergies too..as for GR not sure where that stands..but FG I was taking that in the being of NBE and only the headache problem if I took too much plus once I got use to it it has been fine so far..I am going to read more again about barley grass, shave grass which this one I have had in over a week but can be a problem too.. and read more on GR..I dont think WY will give me a problem So what was your thought on what I should not take or keep in..I know maca is ok for me just in low doses..so far I am yesterday I took 1 maca and 2 PM and 1/2 cup of spearmint tea..I took the PM with soy milk though...can soy make you tired? hey if I have to keep it simplified fine with me ...Hey remember when you did the chart for me and I was taking PM, maca, FG well I may go back to that but only take 2 PM til day 10 and stop everything (well not take FG at the moment anyway) and then after about 3-4 days take PM and maca only low dose 1 PM and then add FG and GR then keep upping the FG and GR while keeping maca the same and then stopping PM around day 20 and maybe add fennel..or should I just keep PM going the whole month..well probably add WY at some point once I order it..Please give me your thoughts on a new regimen with these herbs...probably going to drop barley grass but going to read on it again and shave grass..FYI GR was not that expensive for me only about $10 for a pound..would it be better to get motherlove like the others are using Oh wanted to add for the past 3 months my size went up a1/4 to 1/2 inch and still holding sometimes it goes up to an inch.. so when I started NBE I was 32 now it is 33 1/4-1/2..

[Isabelle]

Congratulations, Susan,

That's good growth

I was thinking about the rash, yes. If it's from low cortisol, it just means total estrogens are too high. So that can be hops plus PM plus soy, plus maca because that accelerates them. And as you write, it takes a while to heal too. So even with only PM and maca, it may still take you a few weeks to find out how much you can take without getting a rash.

If you get an allergic reaction from weed, you get one from hops too, because they are closely related plants. And from beer, even if there is very little hops in it, because an allergy doesn't take much.

Grasses cause allergies too, yes. I haven't read anything about allergies from FG so far, only GI tract issues. And GR, that makes me feel a little like when I was taking milk thistle, tingles all over my skin. Twister Mama described the allergic reaction to milk thistle in detail in her program thread. I have no experience with WY or shave grass.

About simplification. Maca is the one where I lower the dose if I expect problems, but you know how much you can take. You could drop the spearmint tea as long as you are taking PM, because PM has its own anti-androgen. Soy is not necessary with PM. It shouldn't make you sleepy, though, it does the opposite of melatonin: it sets the clock to day time. I have bought soy meal for an experiment, but I haven't started it yet. I lowered GR and FG and maca for 3 days and my left nipple itches ever since

I wouldn't take PM all month. Your plan for cycling looks good. Just introduce FG and GR and FN and WY one by one, not all at the same time, so you can check how your body reacts.

$10 for a pound of GR is a good deal. Mine is about $ 20. Motherlove is more expensive. Don't use it if yours works. It's easy and fast to check: if it swells, it works. And because you got the good deal, you can afford to take a lot of GR while PM is lowering prolactin.

[beachbumbythesea]

Congratulations, Susan,

That's good growth

I was thinking about the rash, yes. If it's from low cortisol, it just means total estrogens are too high. So that can be hops plus PM plus soy, plus maca because that accelerates them. And as you write, it takes a while to heal too. So even with only PM and maca, it may still take you a few weeks to find out how much you can take without getting a rash.

Hi Isabelle,

I think my cortisol was low and I think I am just alittle estrogen high cause I am feeling a little blah today...the only thing that is making me blah is wanting to be with my man and living here at my dads and wanting to work too..and the cold weather doesnt agree with me.. today I am cold but the titas are warm which is good for growth..anyway as for the growth not sure if it is from the 2-3 lbs of weight gain but who cares it is more titas..

If you get an allergic reaction from weed, you get one from hops too, because they are closely related plants. And from beer, even if there is very little hops in it, because an allergy doesn't take much.

Yes it sucks to be sensitive to so much..weed gave me wicked headaches, sometime nausea, cant remember whatelse..beer always made me breakout in acne and something effecting my eyes with both...

Grasses cause allergies too, yes. I haven't read anything about allergies from FG so far, only GI tract issues. And GR, that makes me feel a little like when I was taking milk thistle, tingles all over my skin. Twister Mama described the allergic reaction to milk thistle in detail in her program thread. I have no experience with WY or shave grass.

Yes FG and GR so far are ok with me..I actually mess drinking them..they made me feel relaxed..almost temped to have some today Oh I get the tingles all over too..GR is a liver cleansing and if your liver is getting cleansed then your body will detox the liver and maybe that is why Twister Mama may have thought she was allergic to milk thistle cause hense liver cleanse or she really was allergic..if she was taking it for a long time eventually she would have had less reaction but if she was really allergic then it would just keep going..detoxing is very hard thing to deal with unless it is done right..detoxing isnt something to just go and do..

About simplification. Maca is the one where I lower the dose if I expect problems, but you know how much you can take. You could drop the spearmint tea as long as you are taking PM, because PM has its own anti-androgen. Soy is not necessary with PM. It shouldn't make you sleepy, though, it does the opposite of melatonin: it sets the clock to day time. I have bought soy meal for an experiment, but I haven't started it yet. I lowered GR and FG and maca for 3 days and my left nipple itches ever since

Oh yeah I forgot you mentioned that before about soy doing the opposite of making one sleepy..so none at night..I actually like soy but not alot..I usually have some in the morning but last night I had some..maybe it was a good thing I took the melatonin.. as for spearmint tea I am kinda liking it ..for relaxing and stomach..I may help my rash more too....so I guess you were taking too much maybe you need to change yours randomly..goes to show us ones that take to much that it is true less is sometimes better...me too getting some tingling..nice feeling I know..smiles back at you girl

I wouldn't take PM all month. Your plan for cycling looks good. Just introduce FG and GR and FN and WY one by one, not all at the same time, so you can check how your body reacts.

Ok will do

$10 for a pound of GR is a good deal. Mine is about $ 20. Motherlove is more expensive. Don't use it if yours works. It's easy and fast to check: if it swells, it works. And because you got the good deal, you can afford to take a lot of GR while PM is lowering prolactin.

I was thinking of getting the Motherlove for lotions..hey not sure if it would be more money or just the same as you pay for GR but the company I buy it from is I think called herbalcom..they have a flat shipping and handling rate...I think you can order bulk too..meaning over so many pounds you may get a discount..anyway..yours maybe a better quality too..

Question..I read a post that someone said they have been trying for a few years NBE and no go....some commented and saying how there maybe more that dont suceed and most grow cause they lost weight...my thought after reading that was what about the males and most of them grow and better dam good..why is that ...I read alot of the males threads and it may take some of them a while to grow but they do..and there has be at least 1 or 2 that grow just doing noogleberry which IMO have helped me alot with the uneven titas or it could be hopefulness..I will soon post updates ...maybe later or tomorrow..k done for now..

[Isabelle]

Hi Susan,

Male NBEers have no cycle, and most take high doses of PM. The question has been posted on the forum lately, and a good answer I read there is statistics: the women on this forum are the ones that are not satisfied with their natural development. The men are a random sample, comparable to a group of pre-teen girls.

Most male forum members are TG. They have tried a lot, and many know what works for them before they join this forum.

[beachbumbythesea]

Goodmorning Isabelle,

I guess males dont get much symptoms since they dont have a cycle the is probably why they can take more estrogen but they still can get estrogen dom.. us women if we go way off balance then we get wicked symptoms and it is harder do cope with..I guess..but I have read others and yourself getting symptoms just as us females but are they as bad..I guess they could be..dont know..I agree with that males are more motivated to get it right like some women too.. It all depends on how bad you want it to work and not give up..IMO I think most anyone can achieve NBE..

I have a dumb question..I was reading women with PCOS been giving metaform that helped with excess facial hair and acne and other stuff but some have gotten bad experience from and had to stop and symptoms came back and one women started drinking spearmint tea and it helped..so my question is is FG and GR like a form of metaform for insullin..if so I would think it would be good to take one or small amounts of both though out the whole cycle or possible just second half..I wonder if WY would do the same..anyway that is all for now ..going to read Wahaika's site on PCOS..he has more info on that..

OK Isabelle I did a quick reading and he mentions GR and yes hops, and spearmint tea which I read online yesterday that it should be taken in the FH phase which he mentioned also..so I may start small amounts of GR..I wonder why he didnt bring up FG as much but he did mention it..he mentioned GR for the hypothalamus..is this what regulates thyroid and insullin?..ok back to reading..

[Isabelle]

Hi Susan,

Metaform is a brand of metformin, and metformin was developed in research that started from goat's rue:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galega_officinalis

The hypothalamus signals to the thyroid:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothalami...yroid_axis
but I don't know if it works closely together with the pancreas, which makes insulin.

[beachbumbythesea]

Hi Isabelle,

Really..that is very interesting that GR was resposible for development of metaformin.. dang... I wonder how many people know this ..well alot now... wow that is really interesting to me..

Oh yes pancreas has a connection to the hypothalamus:
http://www.emedicinehealth.com/anatomy_o...cle_em.htm

Thank you going to use GR soon..wondering what makes FG dif..that it doesnt effect the pancreas and would it be better to take both (I want to do only teas though) together like FG 1 part to GR 2 parts just an example..also can GR cause lactic acidosis like metaformin has..

[Isabelle]

Hi Susan,

I wouldn't bet on lactic acidosis, because of this sentence in the wikipedia page I linked above: "the risk of lactic acidosis with metformin is no higher than with other antidiabetic therapies when it is prescribed according to its label". This suggests the herbal therapy was considered too.

I use 1:1 FG:GR, and I'm lowering doses to below 3,000 mg. FG lowers blood sugar and blood pressure. So I prefer GR if I haven't eaten for half a day.