[rubysoho]

Hi everyone! I'm so glad that I found this site... I've been doing a BE routine for almost a month, but I somehow managed to totally miss this site. I got my BE information from this blog here (I hope I can post links):

http://naturalremedysite.blogspot.com/se...nhancement

The whole blog is about natural remedies, BE being one of the topics. If anyone is interested in checking it out, new info can always be helpful!

So I'm 5'6, 118lbs, and 32A. My goal is a B cup. I started on December 17th, and I have only been using fenugreek - I decided to go super slow and see how my body responds (which is kind of ironic, because I'm actually the most impatient person ever).

So I drink FG tea twice a day and do a massage with almond oil steeped in FG powder/extract twice a day for about 10, 15 mins. It seems as though my boobs are a bit fuller BUT I know that I'm going to get my period soon, so it could just be the wishful thinking/swollen boobs syndrome that I'm sure we've all gotten. I'll see where I'm at after my period. But it isn't all to no avail - I definitely recommend the massage to everyone, because my boobs have totally gotten more shapely. They may not be bigger or fuller, but they just look happier! (as weird as that sounds )
Also, I may just be 100% crazy, but I feel as though I have some new curves in my waist. I've always been skinny and I'm kinda wide-boned, so my waist was always boxy with just the slightest hint of curves. But after I started doing the FG routine, all of a sudden I now have some curves on my waist! Has anyone else had this? Maybe I am just totally insane, but if that's the case, I'd like to stay insane because my waist feels niiiiiiiiiice!! hahaha

Anyway, this is my "major question":
Like I said, I've been doing the FG routine for almost a month and that's the only herb I use. There hasn't been a huge amount of growth or anything. BUT last night after I did the massage and drank the tea for the 2nd time, I noticed that my VEINS were popping up on my legs and arms. Yesterday was when I really paid attention to this, but it's happened before. I tried searching online for what it could be, but couldn't really find too much info.

The weird thing is that it doesn't look like varicose veins or spider veins, and they're not my normal "blue"-looking veins - it's like, my veins are this maroon/purple colour and they're visible all along my arm and leg, esp my thighs and back of my arms. Obviously I started freaking out, but today they're gone. It only happens for a bit after I take the FG.

All I found online was this: http://curezone.com/forums/am.asp?i=852771
Basically, some guy is saying that it could happen due to exposure to estrogen-mimicking products you put inside your body, and if that's the case you should cut down your dosage. Is there any validity to this?

I read somewhere on here where someone (I think it was Isabelle) said that 1 tsp is equal to 1000mg of FG (or maybe it was 3000mg...? I forgot, but it was a LOT!) and I put in 2 little spoons of FG in my tea twice a day PLUS the FG-steeped massage. So is this too much FG? And is the vein thing my body telling me to stop with FG overload?

I was thinking of adding another herb since it's been almost a month anyway... adding either EPO, Wild Yam, or PM and then just doing the massage with the FG steeped in the oil. I've heard that Wild Yam is complementary to FG, but if this vein thing is a result of too much estrogen-mimicking going on in my body, maybe I will stick to EPO because Wild Yam is hardcore with the estrogen...? I'm very confused!

Sorry for the long post! Can you please give me your thoughts on this weird vein thing and give me any suggestions on what I should change my routine to?

THANK YOU!!!!!

[Isabelle]

Hi rubysoho,

I commented on the rest by PM, but I'll elaborate on a few questions here:

Fenugreek is the best waist slimmer I know.

A very flat small teaspoon is 1,000 mg, a really heaped one is 5,000 mg. I want to keep my dose below 3,000 mg a day.

Fenugreek affects blood pressure and blood sugar, and it increases prolactin, which swells the breasts. So it is not really a surprise that it swells veins too, but I have never noticed it. But then I have never taken your dose for more than one day either.

Fenugreek contains diosgenin, like wild yam. So if you start wild yam, decrease fenugreek. But technically, there is no such thing like a fenugreek overdose. So if you have equipment to measure blood pressure and if you don't experience unmanageable sugar highs and dips, just go with it as long as you're happy with the other results

[Bargain Boobs]

Hi Rubysoho,

We seem to having similar things happening to us, so I had to comment. Firstly, I only use Fenugreek topically, but as soon as I started using it I had exactly the same thing happen to my waist too! I've always been very boyish, snake hips, but suddenly my waist slimmed & I got curvier! So, it can't be just our imagination!

Secondly, I'm really glad you mentioned the 'purple/blue vein thing', as this is what I've been experiencing recently too, and tbh, it's worrying me. Like you, they are mainly down my arms and legs, and also on my chest a bit. I hope someone can shed some light on this. I don't want to do any lasting damage to myself. I also use NB, so maybe that has something to do with it too.

Anyway, best of luck on your NBE program. I hope you get your B cup. That's what I'm aiming for too.

[rubysoho]

Hey Bargain Boobs! (love your name, btw haha)

Thanks for commenting! Ok, the 'curves on waist' side effect of FG is so awesome. I totally wasn't expecting it so it was such a pleasant surprise.

Regarding the vein thing, I was getting really worried too. But (as usual) Isabelle is totally correct - it was a kind of an overload of FG. What I did is that I lowered the dosage that I put in my tea and only drink it once a day now instead of twice. Instead of just using FG for NBE, I'm adding other gentle herbs. I also put FG on topically, like you, and now I don't put so much on. It's only been a couple days, but so far so good - the vein thing has completely cleared up.

Also, I realized that the closer it was to my period, the more likely my veins popped up - that could just be a coincidence maybe, but maybe that is likely for your as well? Or does it happen no matter what?

My mom is a borderline Type II diabetic and she had taken FG seeds to help her. But she took a LOT in a short amount of time and she did kind of "overdose" on them. In Aryuvedic medicine, FG is considered a "hot" or "warm" food, in the sense that it gives out heat inside your body once it's inside. Now my mom can't eat FG anymore (which sucks!) because she literally starts getting too hot, her nose/throat starts itching, etc. Of course, she had taken WAY too much daily, but still - herbs are a medicine too, and you want to be safe not too take too much of anything, just like you wouldn't want to take too many Advil or Xanax. After all, we should be careful of anything we put inside our body, right. It may not affect us now, but we don't want to have our bodies unable to handle these awesome herbs in the future! So even if our vein situation isn't necessarily our bodies reacting negatively to the FG, the way I see it they're still saying "HMMMM... that's a lot of FG you're putting in me, huh?", and I can take a hint!

Like Isabelle said, I think keeping the dosage to less than 3000 mg/day would be best, and adding other herbs to complement the FG is what's worked for me so far. If you're on a FG only program, perhaps you can try adding other herbs as well? That's what I'm starting to do. I know stuff like PM works wonders for NBE, but I prefer to stick with gentler herbs, and I don't mind if it takes a while to show results. I'm much too lazy to have to deal with a high maintenance herb haha. What's your program like?

Best of luck to you as well! May we both be Bs in the near future!!

And Isabelle - thanks for your explanation of what was happening. I couldn't understand how FG could be affecting my veins, but you made it all make sense. And thanks for all your help in everything else and letting me pick your brain to no avail - you are the BEST!!

[Bargain Boobs]

Rubysoho,

Yes, the FG is worth the ugly veins for the amazing waist thing! I think we must be quite sensitive to FG, for it to have quite a dramatic effect on us.

Yes, I think Isabelle is right. She is sooo knowledgable, our very own boobie encyclepeadia. As I'm not taking FG internally, I didn't think it would have that much effect, but I DO spread it over my boobs quite liberally, and you can't really tell how much FG you're getting into your bloodstream using it topically, can you?

That's interesting that you mentioned you had the veins around your period. My period was last week and that was when I noticed A LOT of veins too. I looked like a road map! This week, they're not as bad either. It's put my mind at rest, that there's nothing wrong with me now. Thanks.

It's a shame your mum can't use FG anymore. I think I have the opposite of her problem, and get hypoglaecemic symptoms if I don't eat every few hours. It's been a lot better since I've been doing NBE and have drastically reduced my sugar intake, and been eating more low GI foods etc.

Like you, I'm starting to experiment with a few other herbs, mainly hops & I'm going to buy some goat's rue soon. I'm mostly only using them topically, as I'm too frightened to take too much internally and risk screwing up my cycle. Although, I'm tempted to try PM, I just know it would send my body haywire ! I'm going to try gentler stuff first, and PM will be my last resort, if all else fails. I'm not giving up my B-cup dream without a fight!

[Isabelle]

Thank you Bargain Boobs and rubysoho

There are alternatives for fenugreek as an antidiabetic: goat's rue, and black seed (nigella sativa, sometimes called black cumin, but the plant isn't even related to cumin).

[Pansy-Mae]

I've missed reading this thread for some reason

I started on FG about 2 weeks ago at 2 x610mg per day and about 4 or 5 days ago I upped that to 4 x610mg per day.

A few days ago (and I can't for the life of me remember exactly when), I noticed that I had a pronounced network of blue veins at the tops/outsides of my boobs and running round to the tops of my arms. At the time I thought it must just be the way the light was catching me, or something, and thought no more about it until I just read this thread. I've just checked and the blue veins have vanished again. I can't help thinking, now, that it was a reaction to the increased FG dose and having acclimatised things have settled down again. I just wish I could remember how the two events actually fitted together, to be sure.

[rubysoho]

BargainBoobs - you're right, it's hard to monitor the FG when you're applying it topically. Do you steep the seeds/powder in an oil or use an extract? I used to soak the powder in almond oil, but lately I've been using an extract... it's a bit easier with the extract because it comes with a dropper; I only use a little bit to mix with the oil and it definitely seems like it's less. When I used the powder soaked in oil, the amount I put in was it - there was no control over the amount going into my system. At least with a dropper you can actually measure it.
I was also tempted to use PM but then I decided against it. Like you, I think if all else fails, then maybe I'll give it a shot. I got a bag of hops the other day! I'm going out of town for 10 days, so when I get back I will start drinking a hops tea. How do you put hops on topically?

Isabelle - yes, black seeds!! I remember finding out about them a while ago because I read about them in some Eastern medicine book. Apparently they are known as the seeds that "cure every ailment except death." That's a pretty hardcore reputation to have! Thanks for reminding me of them, I will start harassing my mom to start taking those.
Also, I got some hops and was thinking of making tea out of it, but I also drink a FG tea... would it be completely insane to mix the 2 together? Kind of like killing 2 birds with one stone? (As you can see, I'm so lazy! I'd rather just make tea once or twice a day instead of 4 times/day ) If that's completely nonsensical, then I will probably just use one topically and have the other as a tea.

Pansy Mae - I'm so glad that I wasn't the only one with the weird vein thing! Yeah, it most likely was your upped dosage of FG. Like I'd mentioned earlier, apparently FG is classified as a "hot" food, so it heats up the inside of your body and like Isabelle said, it probably swelled up the veins. Have you kept your dosage at 4 x610/day or lowered it? And are you seeing results from the FG in your routine?

[Isabelle]

Hi Rubysoho,

Make sure you drink the hops tea with a light meal. There is an anti-androgen in hops, xanthohumol, which digests to a powerful phyto-estrogen, 8-prenylnaringenin. If you drink the tea between meals, you enjoy the anti-androgen effect. But it's only with the meal that you get the maximum estrogenic effect.

I have used hops and fenugreek together, but remember that fenugreek lowers blood sugar and that it affects blood pressure too. That makes it an ideal time to concentrate all the carbs in your diet in that one meal you take with the hops and the fenugreek. But the low blood sugar from the fenugreek, the sugar rush and the sugar dip from the carbs, and the sleepiness from the hops can make this cocktail a wild ride.

[sumi12]

We seem to having similar things happening to us, so I had to comment. Firstly, I only use Fenugreek topically, but as soon as I started using it I had exactly the same thing happen to my waist too! I've always been very boyish, snake hips, but suddenly my waist slimmed & I got curvier! So, it can't be just our imagination!