[Rosance]

Instead of using a PC cream when off of PM, can one just take Wild Yam and Fenugreek?

[Isabelle]

In my opinion, yes. But this is controversial. PC is made industrially from diosgenin. Wild yam and fenugreek contain diosgenin. Originally, people started taking diosgenin hoping it would increase progesterone, but no direct biochemical path has been found that makes progesterone from diosgenin.

However, there are studies that see an increase in serum progesterone and prolactin from oral diosgenin.
http://journals.sfu.ca/africanem/index.p...rticle/868
http://www.sid.ir/En/ViewPaper.asp?ID=32334&varStr=27;AL-CHALABII%20I.;YAKHTEH;SUMMER%202005;7;SUPPLEMENT%201;50;50

[little mandarins]

Hi Isabelle,

Ic, guess its just a matter of trying since people have been getting results both ways.

Currently I'm taking 4000mg of fenegreek and 850mg of wild yam in luteal phase a day. In your opinion, do you think it would be too much to add 1000mg of vitex as well??

Thanx!

[Isabelle]

Hi little mandarins,

Go by the symptoms. If you feel easily irritated, or wake up at night, it's too much.

[Pansy-Mae]

In my opinion, yes. But this is controversial. PC is made industrially from diosgenin. Wild yam and fenugreek contain diosgenin. Originally, people started taking diosgenin hoping it would increase progesterone, but no direct biochemical path has been found that makes progesterone from diosgenin.

However, there are studies that see an increase in serum progesterone and prolactin from oral diosgenin.
http://journals.sfu.ca/africanem/index.p...rticle/868
http://www.sid.ir/En/ViewPaper.asp?ID=32334&varStr=27;AL-CHALABII%20I.;YAKHTEH;SUMMER%202005;7;SUPPLEMENT%201;50;50

Isabelle,
I don't know if you read the discussion paper that was part of the overall document that you quoted in a post recently about phyto-content of various herbs? ( http://www.cancersupportivecare.com/estr...tml#table3 )
There is a paragraph in it that says:

"Many of the diosgenin-containing herbal products (Dioscorea-wild yam) are being sold under the guise that they are progesterone precursors and will be converted in vivo into progesterone and other steroids (DHEA). None of the saliva from women reporting consumption of diosgenin containing herbs was found to possess any progesterone bioactivity despite high levels of PR-binding components in some of them (20%-30%). Moreover, all of the saliva from the 11 women who were using diosgenin-containing products also contained very low levels of progesterone, determined by RIA (mean 19, range 5-34 pg/ml progesterone). Hence, our preliminary data support recent arguments (31,32) and uncontrolled pilot clinical studies (3) that diosgenin is not converted to progesterone in the human body."

So not only is there no known pathway to do the diosgenin conversion in the body, but their saliva (serum) assay doesn't detect any increased progesterone levels after ingesting diosgenin, either. This is totally at odds with the two papers you quoted above!

I guess the jury is STILL out on this one!

[Isabelle]

Yes, Pansy-Mae,

I still wonder why some studies find it and some don't. The number of publications on this issue is increasing though, so it's a matter of time.

Fenugreek helped my growth, but then, only the effect on prolactin would be enough for that.

[little mandarins]

Thanx Isabelle. Currently I have no symptoms, I'm just still in the process of trying things out, but I've been taking 3000mg of FG and 850mg of WY for nearly 4 months already together with Hyalaronic Acid with MSM, collagen, Vit C, fish oil, EPO and multivitamin. I also take PM in my follicular phase.

I don't get any swelling or tingles either, don't think I've grown anything yet. But I'm not about to give up. I've just bought Ainterol so I'm going to try that out and see if I get any growth from them.

Do you think I should ramp up my FG like I did this cycle or add vitex instead?? All of this is just so confusing, but you seem like you know your stuff really well, we are all very fortunate that we have you here willing to help us too, thanks for that

I have also bought L-Lysine, not sure when or should I start that coz seems so much things to take already

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

[Isabelle]

Thank you Little Mandarins,

I grew well on 4,600 mg of fenugreek. I have very little experience with vitex, and none with L-lysine.

[little mandarins]

Ok, I'll just ramp up my fenegreek for now and see what happens, thanx for you advice

[Rosance]

I am wondering, since I am almost out of my Greenbush pills, if I should take Vitex instead of these three herbs (FG, WY, and SP) during my luteal phase.