[Pansy-Mae]

PM suppresses prolactin, so you may need more goat's rue to offset the effect of PM, before you have swelling like me.

As I've told you, I was planning to drop the PM and replace with hops, but I simply can't tolerate hops so I stayed with 1000mg PM (down from my normal 2000mg). I confess that because nothing seemed to be happening, yesterday I upped the PM back to 2000mg
You have no idea how scary it is, but I'll drop the PM to 500mg and see if that does anything for the swelling, but if I find I'm starting to lose what I've got, I'll come over there and pull the finger out of your dyke! ( Joking)

[gilly]

Male symptoms of hyperprolactinemia are hypogonadism (low testosterone), infertility, and erectile dysfunction. At 4,500 mg of goat's rue tea, I have no erectile dysfunction. I have to disarm an uprising every morning.

Too funny, Isabelle!
Thank you so much for keeping this thread up! You are truly invaluable on this board.

[Isabelle]

You're welcome, gilly

And I'm sorry, Pansy-Mae,

that this turns out to be complicated. Your hops may be more bitter than mine though. There are male and female plants. The flowers on the female plants become a lot more bitter after fertilization. In Belgium, it's forbidden to keep male plants in a garden, and as soon a plant is identified as male, it's removed. Sounds like a eunuch fantasy

Fortunately, hops does not suppress prolactin. I have no idea how much goat's rue it takes to offset the prolactin suppression by PM.

Thank you for trying hops capsules. I have only tried two sources of hops, so I'm eager to learn about what others do. Can you share where your beloved found them, or is it still part of a private eunuch fantasy?

[Pansy-Mae]

You're welcome, gilly

And I'm sorry, Pansy-Mae,

that this turns out to be complicated. Your hops may be more bitter than mine though. There are male and female plants. The flowers on the female plants become a lot more bitter after fertilization. In Belgium, it's forbidden to keep male plants in a garden, and as soon a plant is identified as male, it's removed. Sounds like a eunuch fantasy

Fortunately, hops does not suppress prolactin. I have no idea how much goat's rue it takes to offset the prolactin suppression by PM.

Thank you for trying hops capsules. I have only tried two sources of hops, so I'm eager to learn about what others do. Can you share where your beloved found them, or is it still part of a private eunuch fantasy?

I'm afraid I have no idea of the sex of my dried hops!
All I can tell you is that they are of German origin via www.cotsherbs.co.uk

You just gave me a real laugh though! As I said, I was busy working this afternoon and she was busy googling and calling things out as she found them. Eventually she called out one that seemed a bit cheaper so I had a quick look, and yep, it was. Then I noticed that the rest of the page was all the other herbs we talk about on here, even including Maca, but my mind was still on the report I was trying to write and I thought no more about it, just told her to order the hops for me.
When you asked about the source, I had no idea so I've just had to google again...and found it is actually the Wonderup people, selling the individual herbs! http://www.vortexhealth.net/orderpage.html

[Isabelle]

Hi Pansy-Mae,

Well, they're female: a male plant only has extremely small flowers

Thank you for the links. Does what you bought really look like this?
http://www.cotsherb.co.uk/botanical-herb...d_269.html
It's the whole flowers, and they must have been dried away from the sun, because they're still green. Mine have fallen apart into separate leaves, and they are more orange than green. The only time I used whole flowers was when I found a wild hops plant that had been thrown over a hedge. That tasted stronger than what I normally use too.

The news about Wonderup selling individual herbs for an attractive price really made my day There really is hope, when the best of the pack see that there is more business in educating their customers than in selling overpriced formulas.

[Pansy-Mae]

Does what you bought really look like this?
http://www.cotsherb.co.uk/botanical-herb...d_269.html

No, not really, it is a pale green colour and ranges in size from flat small pieces down to powder

   

[Isabelle]

Thank you, Pansy-Mae,

For the picture. Except for the colour, this looks exactly like mine. But other than the taste, there's no way to find out if it's been fertilised or not.

I started my new 50+ multivitamin today.
http://www.detuinen.nl/vitaminen/multivi....html#tabs
It has
Vitamin B6: 3 mg (between 2 and 10 is OK)
Vitamin B12: 25 µg (would have liked more than 50)
Folic acid: 400 µg (just what I want)
Zinc: 15 mg (between 12 and 35 is OK)
Menstruating women should get 25 mg iron, but I don't need it, and there isn't any in it.

The 25 µg of vitamin B12 is already 1,000 % of Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA), so I can see why they didn't put any more in. Since April 30th, 2011, megadose vitamin supplements are prohibited in the EU.

[Isabelle]

I found this great new review article on 5α-reductase:
http://scholar.googleusercontent.com/scholar?q=cache:npWWyULKrhMJ:scholar.google.com/+progesterone+prolactin+diosgenin+OR+fenugreek+OR+dioscorea+OR+yam&hl=nl&as_sdt=0&as_ylo=2008&as_yhi=2012
There is also a pdf-version, with complete drawings of the molecules.
Turns out there are not two, but five isozymes. It could be hard to find an herbal anti-androgen that blocks them all

[Pansy-Mae]

Isabelle,
Thats a good paper, thanks. Lots in there, but two things particularly caught my eye:

1) The first androgen isolated was androsterone,.... was isolated by Butenant in 1931 from 25,000 liters of urine from adult men. ..... Ernst
Laquer and his colleagues isolated T from several tons of bull testes.


2)...finasteride and dutasteride significantly increased hair count after a minimum of 6-month treatment. While finasteride 1mg daily was superior to 5% topical minoxidil in inducing hair growth ...
I've been on 5mg Finasteride for about 4months and haven't seen anything growing yet!

[Pansy-Mae]

The news about Wonderup selling individual herbs for an attractive price really made my day There really is hope, when the best of the pack see that there is more business in educating their customers than in selling overpriced formulas.

They just arrived a few mins ago...turn out to be Swansons brand, so not rubbish and good delivery time as well.