[Malina]

This post was inspired by tibetan princess's program thread. I was going to add to it, but I felt bad about taking over. But I'm happy to get any input from anyone who knows how to deal with this set of issues, so I hope no one feels excluded from helping me

Unfortunately, I don't have enough of a bio background for all of this to come naturally, I'm picking it up as I go along, but I'm definitely not as well versed in all of this as most other forumites.

I was wondering if anyone could give some simple recommendations on how to work with hypothyroidism. I have hashimoto's disease and I'm on synthroid, have been for many years. I definitely want to help my thyroid as well as grow boobs, but all of this seems so overwhelming. I want to start very slow and I want to understand what I'm doing each step of the way.

I read over tibetan's program, and I got kind of lost. Do you think you could suggest something as the first stepping stone, a simple herb or diet restriction that can get me going. I'm a pretty fast learner once I get going, but I need to be in the groove first. I feel like a first grader who accidentally walked into high school around here I'm very big on knowing the why and the how, and I want to learn what I'm doing and not just follow steps if at all possible. I'm always worried about hurting myself further.

Also, reading some of tibetan's posts made me realize why I respond so slowly to all of this, my body is all about NOT growing boobs, I think.

Here is a quick run down of my issues:

I gain weight relatively easily, but I keep it off with exercise and diet. I have a little bit of extra fuzz on my body, but not terribly hairy. I'm 31 years old, no kids, my hair goes from thick to thin relatively randomly, it's mostly thick now. I'm very sensitive to sugar and mildly addicted to it. I don't smoke, but I do drink about a glass of red wine a day.

here are my measurements:
I'm 5'4"
I weigh about 123 lb
my measurements are:
hip: 34" (mostly ass not much hip to speak of)
waist: 25"
under bust: 28.5"
bust: 34.25"

My bust is very small, despite what appears to be decent measurements. I wear a 34B, I kind of think it's a sham. I'm likely a 34A and not a very impressive one at that.

What I'm currently doing: I"m in week 10 of Brava, with some very depressing results. I do get swelling from wearing it, so that's a start. I finally was able to figure out that fenugreek + hops + fennel = good, so I've been doing that with 1800mg, 1800 mg, 600mg dosage. I'm not feeling very different, definitely no significant response from my body, negative or positive. I really want to grow boobs, but I also really want to do right by my body. I have bottle of PM sitting in my drawer, but I don't know if I'm going to jump down that rabbit hole just yet.

Can someone recommend a relatively simple starter program, that I can grow with (pun intended), so I can learn and possibly add to it, but not do a ton of things I don't understand right away? Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[TibetanPrincess]

Hi Malina!

Thanks for reaching out and also for this thread! I am hoping us hypos can get together and figure this out once and for all.

I promise to get to your thread within a couple of days at the latest. I have so much going on right now I just wanted to let you know.

Be back soon,

Tibetan

[Malina]

Hey, thank you very much for touching base. That's very cool of you. Not to worry. I have book staring at me from my night stand and a textbook gazing at me from my desk. I know how that goes So definitely take your time.

[TibetanPrincess]

Okay where to even begin!

I hope this thread keeps actively here. I think there are many of us hypothyroiders out there struggling with not only meds and hormone balance, but just understanding what we need since we don't exactly respond like the average healthy individual when it comes to nbe.

So far what worked for me. I have found PC worked for me to an extent. I gave it five months and developed no more on it by the end of the 3rd month of using it.

I grew to a nice full B cup from a very full A cup. My research concluded that Progesterone supported thyroid function while an abundance of estrogen mainly E2 or estradoil did the opposite- slowing down or killing thyroid function. My Dr. told me out of all of the estrogens, my estradoil was the highest and at a dangerous level!

Which is why we don't respond to nbe (estrogenic herbals alone) and begin to develop more severe hypo symptoms.

When I did nbe for the first time years back in 2005. I had made the mistake of not only taking a bunch or estrogenic herbs, but a serious amount when I stalled or did not grow more than swelling at the time. And in doing this, I ended up severely hypo with a heavy amount of free flowing estrogen and testosterone in my blood that turned into androgens. This was the worst thing I could have ever done to my body.


By the following year, my adrenal output was negative with unstable blood sugar. I became slightly insulin resistant and my Hashimoto's antibody count was a little over 1,000!

Also, my doctor noted high progesterone levels!

So I had all the hormones, "why didn't I grow?" I thought. What I didn't realize was the estrogen and testosterone were converting into adrogens. I was creating a lot of DHEA and my hormones were free flowing because of the glandular imbalance causing them to attach to other receptor sites in the body.

I truly believe also that it was because of a low level of SHBG (sex hormone binding globulin) that I did not respond to nbe. We need a healthy level of SHBG to mop up the hormones in our blood to attach to their ideal receptor sites and function as they should.

I also learned my Lutenizing hormone levels were higher than Follicle Stimulating Hormone levels. I had weak pituitary function.


While this is my case, I understand that this may not be every one else's.

And while I developed body and face acne, hirsuitism, massive headaches and cramps, hypoglycemia, and mild insulin resistance, I was truly blessed I did not develop PCO'S.

After six months of this NBE failure and ruining my glandular system, I decided to stay away from nbe altogether until last year 2011. I still have back acne and occasional outbreaks on the face and so I know my adrogen levels are high but not nearly like it was in 2010 and before.


My advice to anyone who wishes to begin their nbe journey: it is IMPERATIVE to get a hormone panel done as well as testing your adrenal,pitutary and thyroid levels at the least to know what your imbalances are.
You can easily be healthy and come out with a sluggish gladular system if you attempt nbe blindly.


My advice to all that suffer androgen dominance that are trying to do nbe: Focus on a good anti androgen diet and herb program first and take DIM. Remember, most of you make enough estrogens as it is so it would be pointless to add any more phyto estrogens to your program. I feel that my growth only happened when my androgens were controlled.

[melissa4u]

Thank you so much for that information Tibetan!
About the PC, did you apply it on your breasts only?

[TibetanPrincess]

Hi Melissa! Every other day I did starting the 2nd week of follicular phase into the last week of luteal phase.

[Malina]

Thank you very much for your response!

I think you make a really good point. And I've noticed similar tendencies. I know I respond very poorly to additional estrogen. I was taking hops for about 3 weeks (I posted that it had no negative effect on my body), but I reevaluated what I wrote and decided that wasn't true. My period was extra heavy, like 4 times heavier than usual, I developed acne, and my hair started to shed a little. I responded to BCP in a similarly poor fashion, which is why I stopped and now use IUD. My hair regrows as soon as I remove the offending substance (it takes no more than a couple of months). I quit hops the next day after my post and since then I think feel a little bit more energetic.

I like knowing that my overall well-being is confirmed by research you had done. It's strange, I can watch myself flounder with something that's "supposed" to work, but it doesn't and I just don't want to accept that I may be different. Getting that validation sheds a little bit more light on it.

I'm going to retest my hormones in April, which is my annual date with endocrinologist. I also feel very lucky not to have PCOS. I was diagnosed with it originally by a generalist, but my endocrinologist said it was highly unlikely. As you know, there is no definitive test, so it's a matter of opinion.

I was thinking of trying PC after I was done with my Brava program end of May. Do you add anything to it? Which brand do you buy? I guess I might as well stock up on it now. Btw, I think Brava is working slowly but surely for me. On week 10, I'm about a half a cup size bigger in the evening than I was before I started. It's not much, but it seems magical to me. The heaviest I've ever been was roughly 15lb heavier than I am now, and I think my breasts were around this size back than. Except my under bust was larger.

What do you think of fenugreek and fenel? I read that fenugreek is excellent at controlling blood sugar, and I have problem with my sugar intake. So, I thought it may work. I also drink quite a bit of peppermint tea ( at least 3 cups a day). By the way, I find that for me going cold turkey on sugar is the only thing that works. If I have a little bit, I have to have more and more. It's a full on addiction. I was actually diagnosed with hypo, because of my sugar weirdness, the doctor was testing me for diabetes. I had not other hypo symptoms besides my diabetic tendencies and randomly thinning hair, which turned out to be a false alarm.

[TibetanPrincess]

Thank you very much for your response!

I think you make a really good point. And I've noticed similar tendencies. I know I respond very poorly to additional estrogen. I was taking hops for about 3 weeks (I posted that it had no negative effect on my body), but I reevaluated what I wrote and decided that wasn't true. My period was extra heavy, like 4 times heavier than usual, I developed acne, and my hair started to shed a little. I responded to BCP in a similarly poor fashion, which is why I stopped and now use IUD. My hair regrows as soon as I remove the offending substance (it takes no more than a couple of months). I quit hops the next day after my post and since then I think feel a little bit more energetic.

I like knowing that my overall well-being is confirmed by research you had done. It's strange, I can watch myself flounder with something that's "supposed" to work, but it doesn't and I just don't want to accept that I may be different. Getting that validation sheds a little bit more light on it.

I'm going to retest my hormones in April, which is my annual date with endocrinologist. I also feel very lucky not to have PCOS. I was diagnosed with it originally by a generalist, but my endocrinologist said it was highly unlikely. As you know, there is no definitive test, so it's a matter of opinion.

I was thinking of trying PC after I was done with my Brava program end of May. Do you add anything to it? Which brand do you buy? I guess I might as well stock up on it now. Btw, I think Brava is working slowly but surely for me. On week 10, I'm about a half a cup size bigger in the evening than I was before I started. It's not much, but it seems magical to me. The heaviest I've ever been was roughly 15lb heavier than I am now, and I think my breasts were around this size back than. Except my under bust was larger.

I don't add anything to PC. They also have PC with phyto estrogens but stay away from those unless you are deficient in both. I have only used KOKORO brand (Japanese I think).

Also keep in mind, your IUD has side effects of breast enlargement as you are already getting a dose of synthetic hormones (progestins and estrogens). So it could be that or a combo of both IUD and Brava. I knew a girl who was a B cup and grew to a D cup after months of being on IUD birth control. She wasn't on any supps. and she was way past puberty. So hopefully, this form of BC was prescribed by a knowledgeable Dr. who knows your needs regarding your thyroid health and not just family planning. Often times, they totally miss this and we get worse on BC.

What do you think of fenugreek and fenel? I read that fenugreek is excellent at controlling blood sugar, and I have problem with my sugar intake. So, I thought it may work. I also drink quite a bit of peppermint tea ( at least 3 cups a day). By the way, I find that for me going cold turkey on sugar is the only thing that works. If I have a little bit, I have to have more and more. It's a full on addiction. I was actually diagnosed with hypo, because of my sugar weirdness, the doctor was testing me for diabetes. I had not other hypo symptoms besides my diabetic tendencies and randomly thinning hair, which turned out to be a false alarm.

Fenugreek was one of the many herbs I took when I screwed up my hormones. When I dropped the other herbs and stuck with only Fenugreek, I only noticed the syrupy smell, random nipple hairs growing, and dizziness. When I stopped, It all went away. However, if you take it correctly, it may be beneficial for you.

Fennel seems to be good to me. I haven' taken it long enough to notice any ill effects but I truly believe it is less harsh on the glandular system and I seem to respond to it. I get electric shocks sometimes and I fancy the taste.

[Malina]

Also keep in mind, your IUD has side effects of breast enlargement as you are already getting a dose of synthetic hormones (progestins and estrogens). So it could be that or a combo of both IUD and Brava. I knew a girl who was a B cup and grew to a D cup after months of being on IUD birth control. She wasn't on any supps. and she was way past puberty. So hopefully, this form of BC was prescribed by a knowledgeable Dr. who knows your needs regarding your thyroid health and not just family planning. Often times, they totally miss this and we get worse on BC.
n I dropped the other herbs and stuck with only Fenugreek, I only noticed the syrupy smell, random nipple hairs growing, and dizziness. When I stopped, It all went away. However, if you take it correctly, it may be beneficial for you.

Fennel seems to be good to me. I haven' taken it long enough to notice any ill effects but I truly believe it is less harsh on the glandular system and I seem to respond to it. I get electric shocks sometimes and I fancy the taste.

Thanks for some food for thought. I think there are two types of IUD, first releases hormones and another is made out of copper and has no hormones whatsoever (Paragard), that's the one I picked. Your friend probably had the low hormone one, which supposed to only release hormones into your uterus, but I still passed on that.

Fenugreek seems to be ok... I'm not sure, I'll monitor it some more. I don't feel funny in any way. And I think I've had less trouble with sugar (says I as I munch on a square of dark chocolate at 9:30am in the morning), but seriously, I think I can sanely eat way less.

I'm curious isn't Fenugreek supposed to be prolactin plus a source of progesterone? I also read somewhere on the forum that fennel can stall growth, but I may have taken that out of context.

[TibetanPrincess]

Good to hear on the IUD. Maybe consider an adrenal glandular support supp as an overload of copper can cause tired adrenals.

Yes on the fenugreek but as a source of progesterone? I am not sure. If it contains any form of diosgenin, then I believe so. But I know prolactin is different than progesterone.

However on the fennel, I have no idea. I think the only way to do it is try but not to have too much of it like anything else.

I am doing a fennel/ wild yam combo. Too soon to tell on it since I have been on an NBE break.