[luisa]

Hi Mochaccino, thanks for sharing the information. I am also trying to follow a herbal program at the moment (mostly based on Isabelle's and Eve's programs) so your thread is very useful to me! Will you post your cycling program? Have you started with lower dosages? I was surprised to get some pains when I re-started with lower dosages. I am an AAA and was probably overloading my body with PM.

[mochaccino]

My cycling program:

No ramp up.
Fenugreek 1000mg 3 times per day days 5-10 and 18-23
Saw Palmetto 1000mg 3 times per day on days 1 through midcycle.
Wild Yam 1000mg three times per day on days 18-23
Goat's Rue 1000mg 3 times per day on days 5-10

2 cups per day of spearmint or mint tea for days 1 through midcycle. 1 cup of fennel tea every day.

I'll also be doing fenugreek batter massage for 5 minutes, 1-3 times daily, but 3 is best. The Fenugreek batter is made by steeping 1 cup FG powder in 1 cup olive oil and 2 tablespoons borage oil for at least 1 week.

After I run out of FG powder, I'll just use ready-made FG extract, rubbed in thoroughly, and then followed with a good amount of cocoa butter.

Wahaika recommends following the massage with 30 minutes of heat from a homemade heat bag, or towel from the dryer etc. I microwave and old, enormous, knee-high athletic sock filled with 1 lb dry beans and knotted at the top. It takes about 1 1/2 minutes on high to heat. I also lay a folded card or washcloth or something on my chest, underneath the bean sock, to keep my sternum from getting to hot. Because of the FG and hot stale dry beans, It usually smells like I'm making weird curry chili. How luxurious

[mochaccino]

I started my cycling program yesterday but I won't have my spearmint until next week. I also don't have goat's rue capsules. I have 1 lb loose goat's rue, but it's roughly chopped. I couldn't find powdered, but I probably should have shopped around more. I tried powdering it, but it didn't work out, and I don't really want to go through the trouble of powdering and encapsulating it. I'm thinking about crushing 4 tsp worth of the roughly chopped dry herb in a mortar and pestle. I hope 4 tsp crushed herbs is the same as 2 tsp powdered. There's no way I could powder it in a mortar. After I crush it, I'll boil it into a tea directly in the pot and then strain it through a sieve. I hope 1 cup of this tea per day will be roughly equivalent to 3 capsules, but I'm not sure. Goat's rue is generally considered to be a decent candidate for tea making, so that should mean most of it's active constituents are water soluble. I sure hope so.

I've decided not to do NB for 1 or 2 cycles. If I do I might not be able to tell if the herbs are producing any pain or swelling.

[mochaccino]

This thread seems due for an update. More importantly I seem to have lost
inches in my waist, and I'm not sure why. Several people have said that I look like I lost weight, and one specifically said that my stomach looked flatter and she was very insistent about it. The comments were a big surprise since I've fallen off the diet and exercise wagon hard. I have actually gained about 4 lb. I know that's a lot in such a short time I don't want to jump to conclusions about my waist size, especially since it's possible that I'm just experiencing less bloating, in which case the change might be temporary. I want to start keeping track of my waist to hip ratio, so here are my current measurements:

Waist: 27.5
At belly button: 31.5
Hips: 39

I believe my largest waist size when I was thinner was 29", which is questionable, but it was definitely 28" for quite some time, so there has been a minimum of a 1/2" decrease at the waist and possible even more at the "pooch" which is my trouble spot. I have a very bad memory, and it's easy to change your memories for the better when your memory is already patchy, so I would I take that 29" measurement with a huge grain of salt if I were you It would be amazing if I really did lose 1.5" while gaining 4 lb, which is yet another reason to be skeptical, but I'm feeling very optimistic. I really hope it doesn't turn out to be nothing more than a decrease in bloat *crosses fingers*

[mochaccino]

I almost forgot to say that I experienced some swelling during the second half of my cycle this time around, and my period came 5 days early. I strongly believe that it was the first time in my life that has happened. I realize that an unusually early period is normally not considered to be a good thing, but to me it means that I am finally having a reaction to my herbs. I was very annoyed that I didn't seem to be having any reaction at all, good or bad, even at very high doses. I should point out, I didn't start or stop my herbs exactly when I was supposed to, since I kept forgetting to keep track of my cycle days. I'll be more careful this cycle, and hopefully my period will come at the right time.

[mochaccino]

Well that was short lived! I was feeling guilty so I ate a super healthy meal this morning, and I got slightly bloated for the first time in ages. I decided to measure again right away. It's possible for me to get much, much more bloated than this, to the point that I've considered going to the hospital once or twice. My stomach can look and feel distended, and be very painful. Considering how big my measurments are right now, they must have been absolutely off the charts at my highest levels of bloating. I should point out that it's some sort of digestive issue, not water retention. Both things are commonly called "bloat" in english. People often recommend diuretics, but they're a double edged sword for me. They definitely drain the stomach, if you know what I mean , but they also dehydrate me badly, even in small doses, because I don't actually retain excess water. I only use them if absolutely necessary. I'm strongly considering digestive enzymes. Anyway, this is getting a little OT and TMI and any other awkward acronyms you can think of

My measurements shot up:
Waist: 28.5"
At navel: 33"
Hips: same, of course

[EdithHooters97]

Hi Mochaccino,
What was the 'very healthy meal' you had?
It's hard to know what is healthy and what isn't since there are so many conflicting arguments.
I also have had serious digestive issues, and still sometimes do.
This woman's program helped me enormously with a lot of health issues I had in the past, including digestive. If i eat correctly now I don't get gas, bloating, digestive upset, etc.
Mainly, all vegetables have to be very cooked (raw plants cannot be digested), have to get enough good fats to digest protein. No sugar, no wheat..

Her website is: healingnaturallybybee.com
She mainly deals with people who have candida (yeast overgrowth in their guts) but her program is a healing program for any dis-ease.

[mochaccino]

The meal was lots of spinach, mushrooms, and an omelet. All the vegetables were cooked.

Suspiria, I wonder if you have gastroparesis like me *edit* Sorry! You mentioned candida. I have to say, her beliefs about the causes and symptoms of candida are more than a little odd. However, some aspects of that diet are a lot like what I'm doing. For those who don't know, gastroparesis is unusually slow emptying of the stomach. Food stays in my stomach for too long, and it all just piles up until I feel like I'm going to burst. Not to mention, that for some reason, the condition *TMI alert* causes gas to build up in my abdomen as well. I think the food has far too long to ferment, and starts to do so far too high up in my digestive tract, leading to even more distension in the tummy region.

At first, I tried the usual treatments for tummy troubles and they made my condition much, much worse. It took months for my digestive system to fully recover. Now I'm trying to avoid eating any more fiber than strictly necessary. That means mostly avoiding any high fiber fruits and veggies, as well as most whole grains and beans. That's not as unhealthy as it sounds. I still eat plenty of vegetables that have moderate amounts of fiber, but I cook them very well. I do occasionally eat some of the no-no foods, but as I long as it's not too often I'm ok. High fat diets are usually not recommended for gastroparesis, but eating plenty of fat has actually helped my digestion tremendously. That's probably because treating gastroparesis usually involves choosing between the lesser of two evils. For example, if my fiber was extremely low, my bloating would decrease tremendously, but then I would get all the digestive issues that come along with low fiber intake. I believe something similar holds true for fat intake as well. People with extremely severe gastroparesis have no choice but to cut down fat and fiber to the bare minimum necessary for survival, but thankfully I'm not in that category.

[EdithHooters97]

Have you tried taking Hcl? you might have low stomach acid, and it's unable to digest the food effectively.

Ooh omelettes are good indeed! Mmm, and yes, very healthy.

How to Take Hydrochloric Acid Supplements [HCl]

And I know-- I thought she was crazy at first too (and I was a vegan at the time!!) but nothing else worked, so I started eating that way and it was all uphill from there. It also healed joint issues I had, and got my acne under control, no more anemia, etc etc etc.

[mochaccino]

I actually came back to my thread to remind myself how long it's been since I started my new cycling program. It's been about 2 1/2 months and I'm in the middle of a cycle, so I think I'll finish off this cycle, and then continue for one more before I consider changing my program again. Nothing seems to be happening thus far, and I haven't had breast pains in a long while. I'm beginning to think that prolactin might be more important than I realized. Goat's rue seems to be the only thing that causes swelling for me. It works as long as I decoct it for a full 20 minutes. I think I'll start taking it for the full first half of my cycle rather than just 5 days.

I should probably mention that I've added hops, wild oats, and fish oil back into my program. I realized that I still have not heard a complete compelling explanation for why they should not be included, and my reasons for wanting to take them still stand. However if Wahaika really is correct about oats and fish oil being bad for BE, I suspect it's because they both lower SHBG. The issue with hops, if there really is an issue, might have something to do with the different ways that people metabolize it, and whether or not they consistently take it with meals. I'm considering switching to Menohop, which is recommended by Isabelle, since it contains an enzyme that helps your body convert it to a phytoestrogen rather than a testosterone blocker. I'm open to removing wild oats and fish oil from my program, if only because I still have no idea whether lowering SHBG is good or bad in the long run. It's probably also not strictly necessary to lower SHBG anyway. For now I'll probably continue taking what I've been taking.