[Isabelle]

Good morning Karen,

As long as you don't feel depressed, hops is not too much. You can check your dreams too. Once in a while, I take one and a half hops dose. I wake up with a vivid dream each time.

The warming is from the fenugreek. So you're taking enough, certainly because you don't have any headaches.

The bike ride is the testim. I bet you planned the tour around some spots where the ladies get some fresh air

You're doing great!

[karen]

Good Morning to You too Isabelle,

I had to kinda laugh when you mentioned that my bike tour would be around the ladies With all of the Hops that I had yesterday my "sexual appetitite" is not what I'd call at a "High Point" but I do feel very at peace and calm.

I'm not sleeping as well at night as I'd like to .... I remember once you posting something about that .... a hormone that was out of balance that could cause restless nights?

I've been reading some of your posts .... you sure are getting quite the "Bod" there girl .... even with allot of Hops in me I'd ride my bike past you anytime

I wish I had a better way to figure out dosages. I can't "read the signs" all that well. What I would like to be able to do is to lower DHT way down but not eliminate it completely .... there are lots of things that my body needs "some" DHT for ... at least a little. And then I'd like to be able to raise estradiol to whatever dht/estradiol ratio that I want it to be. Being able to control that ratio seems like an important "piece to the puzzle"

Oh yeah .... BTW in your little hormone table

E P T L
+ 0 + 0 testim
0 0 - ? hops tea
0 + 0 + fenugreek
+ 0 - + hops digested
+ + - + licorice

I would put Testim at 0 0 0 0 ... all it really does is to return E and T to normal levels ... so I'd see it like this


E P T L
0 0 0 0 testim
0 0 - ? hops tea
0 + 0 + fenugreek
+ 0 - + hops digested
+ + - + licorice

But still good .... lowering T (really DHT), raising E, P, and L

BTW I have been taking vitamins everyday plus krill oil capsules ... I still want to fine tune that ... I need a little more zinc for sure ... I need to get some low dosage zinc tabs ... I'm loosing weight .... which is a very good thing .... not sure I'll ever be "lean and mean" but every little bit helps "the look"

It's getting nicer over here .... I had the "Z" out a few times already .... NBE or no NBE I still love driving that little rocket with the top down.

Thanks for your help .... Karen

And don't forget to "throw in a little kink"

[Isabelle]

Thank you Karen,

I sleep poorly on too much maca with too little fenugreek. The maca would translate to testim in your program, so try increasing fenugreek.

Adjust the hops in water to the DHT level you want. The amount of hops you need depends on your 5α-reductase level. So it should be fairly constant, irrespective of the amount of testim you use. Libido and mood give you a fast indication of your DHT level.

Internalize the check list of symptoms that point to the handles on your program. I have a feeling your body gives straight answers, and you understand the mechanics now

Do measure to track your progress for motivation. I never thought I'd be well over half way to the body of my dreams in just eight months of doing this

[karen]

Yesterday I had 3 FG Capsules total (1,830 mg) and I slept crappy last night ... the bottle says 2 capsules 2 or 3 times daily ... I'm a big girl so I'm thinking 2 capsules 4 times daily

Fenugreek Schedule (total 4,880 mg)
2 when I get up
2 with lunch
2 with dinner
2 when I go to sleep

I'm almost 3 inches taller than you and have maybe 45+ lbs more body weight ... I'm thinking I'll be OK with that amount.

What do you think? My plan is to try it today and see how the day goes.

Karen

[Isabelle]

Hi Karen,

That looks good. I prefer to take them 20 minutes before the meal because fenugreek is hypoglycemic.

Consider buying fenugreek in bulk. I used to spend € 15.58 per month on my whole program. That's € 13.17 on herbs and € 2.41 on the multivitamin. But the L-arginine capsules add € 60.92 per month. The total cost of the program is five times higher now at € 76.50. I have stocked up on L-arginine until the end of May. I don't plan any experiments with L-arginine through the summer.

Dose: price: mg: cost per month in €
03000 16.95 300 05.17 Maca
03000 07.40 200 03.39 Hops
03000 06.55 200 03.00 Goat's rue
03000 01.75 250 00.64 Black seed
03000 01.98 400 00.45 Flax
02500 00.95 250 00.29 Fenugreek
10000 00.38 500 00.23 Oats
Total cost herbs 13.17

Dose: price: caps cost per month in €
00001 09.49 120 02.41 Multi
Total herbs+multi 15.58

00020 59.92 600 60.92 L-arginine
Total + L-arginine 76.50

[karen]

I prefer to take them 20 minutes before the meal because fenugreek is hypoglycemic.

Does that mean that it "lowers" blood sugar so you take it before a meal so that it helps stabilize your "Blood/sugar" levels?

Karen

[Isabelle]

Yes, Karen,

That's what it means. After a meal with simple carbs, you get a sugar rush. Unless you eat complex carbs, you get a sugar dip after that, sometimes for several hours.

Fenugreek makes the pancreas shoot insulin into the blood stream as soon as it's ingested or digested. The insulin makes energy from blood sugar (the warming feeling you got), and leaves you with low blood sugar. I once saw black before my eyes after fenugreek. Fenugreek on an empty stomach can have that effect after twenty minutes. After a meal, fenugreek takes longer to go through the intestine.

I time the fenugreek so that the sugar rush from the meal coincides with the low blood sugar from the fenugreek, so they cancel. So I use the fenugreek to stabilize my blood sugar. The ultimate goal is to stabilize insulin too. That has benefits in waist slimming and diabetes prevention. Fenugreek as such is supposed to help in waist slimming and diabetes prevention, but I hope it helps more if I time it right.

Diabetes prevention is more important at my age than at yours. If you had an hereditary or lifestyle predisposition towards diabetes, you would have diabetes by now. You don't, so you won't get it any more.

[karen]

Morning All .....

Isabelle I was reading over some of my old notes and I found something in an old PM that got me wondering ....

Here's what it said ....

"Xanthohumol … this is an anti-androgen (blocks 5AR) plus it contains a weak phyto-estrogen (but lots of it) . The phyto-estrogen in xanthohumol, although weak, is a stronger binder to the estrogen receptors. As long as xanthohumol is on the receptors, it will inhibit estradiol converting estrogens from binding to the receptors. On the board, we know it takes a week to a month to clear the receptors. So what you do is take hops with a light meal. That will allow your body to metabolize the xanthohumol phyto-estrogens into a form of 8-prenylnaringenin …. Which is converted into Estradiol … good for NBE"

This sounds like if I take Hops with Water it kinda defeats the purpose (effectiveness) of then taking it with a meal to force digestion since the receptors will have already been bound to the xanthohumol preventing it from binding to the 8-prenylnaringenin.

Have you seen anything new on this? Or maybe taking "both" ways may not be a good idea ....

Could this also prevent the Estradiol that is created from the Testim from binding to the receptors? Or is that more of a "phtyo-estrogen binding" concern than estradiol that is being converted directly from Testosterone?

Thoughts .....

Karen

[Isabelle]

Good morning Karen,

It's possible, yes. I haven't drank any hops tea since July. Maybe a literature search can tell if xanthohumol has an anti-estrogenic effect. If it has, it will block the estradiol from the testim too, yes.

Today is my official tape day.

Weight is up to 79.5 kg, from 78.0 yesterday, but hey, the ice cream salons opened this week-end. Body Mass Index (BMI) is at a healthy 25.0. Breast circumference has increased a little to 112 cm because of the 4,500 mg goat's rue for the past three days, and my under bust circumference has decreased to 87 cm. Between 88 and 87 cm, there is a big discontinuity in the bra size calculations, US as well as EU, so suddenly I have US F cups, or EU Gs. My breasts don't look all that different. Waist to Hip Ratio (WHR) is down to 0.81.

So I'm going to keep the black seed in my program, and continue the L-arginine ramp up. Today, I'm at 7,500 mg. I'm really anxious to start a barley grass experiment, but I'm postponing that to two weeks from now, because I'm still in the L-arginine ramp up. I don't want to change much now. Something is clearly working a miracle here, and I want it to go on for a while, and I want to find out if it's the black seed or the L-arginine. So nice, clear, separate two week experiments are the way to go now.

Height: 178.5 cm = 5 * 30.48 + 10 * 2.54 = 5' 10"
Weight: 79.5 kg * 2.2046 lbs/kg = 175 lbs
Body Mass Index (BMI): 79.5/1.785/1.785 = 25.0
Breast: 112 cm = 44 "
Under: 87 cm = 34" Difference Breast - Under = 112 - 87 = 25 cm = 10 ", US bra size 38 E (or F), EU 85G
Waist: 81 cm = 32"
Hip: 100 cm = 39" (actually the widest part around my butt)
Waist to hip ratio (WHR): 81/100 = 0.81

Progress in 2011:
Day 11/7 26/7 08/8 22/8 05/9 19/9 3/10 17/10 31/10 14/11 28/11 12/12 27/12
BMI: 26.5 26.4 26.2 25.7 25.3 26.0 25.70 25.70 25.70 25.60 26.00 25.90 25.90
B-U: 8.00 5.00 8.00 8.00 8.00 10.0 10.00 13.00 11.00 14.00 15.00 16.00 16.00
Size 42AAA AAAA AAA AAA AAA AA 42AAA 42. A 42. A 42. A 42. B 42. B 42. B
WHR 0.95 .945 0.94 0.92 0.92 0.96 0.930 0.940 0.910 0.880 0.880 0.880 0.870

Progress in 2012:
Day 09/1 23/1 06/2 20/2 05/3 19/3 02/4 16/4
BMI: 25.7 26.7 26.4 25.9 25.7 25.3 25.7 25.0
B-U: 17.0 18.0 18.0 18.0 20.0 18.0 18.0 25.0
Size 42 B 42 C 42 C 42 C 42 D 40 C 40 D 38 F
WHR 0.84 0.86 0.84 0.86 0.84 0.84 0.83 0.81
B-U = Breast - Under in cm

[Isabelle]

Hi Karen,

This post by chrishoney may be helpful:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=10851&pid=42476#pid42476

I'm not too worried about weak phyto-estrogens. Estrogen receptor antagonists are the real problem.