[Isabelle]

I promised to compare my program with a few succesful commercial all-in-one-pill formulas. Here is the first: Natureday.

The track record of Natureday is second on the forum after Wonderup. It's really simple:
http://www.natureday.com/product/f-ingredients.html
Dong quai, saw palmetto, blessed thistle, fenugreek, and fennel.
I believe dong quai is a myth in NBE. But the rest includes the four basic NBE functions:

Saw palmetto as an anti-androgen
Blessed thistle as a phyto-estrogen and to increase prolactin
Fenugreek for progesterone and prolactin
Fennel for progesterone

sfem grew well on blessed thistle. Note that fenugreek and fennel are listed last, which means they are low doses. The formula is not as heavy on progesterone as it looks.

The hops I use is a central nervous system depressant because it binds to some of the serotonin receptors, it promotes sleep because it binds to melatonin receptors, and it gives me vivid dreams. A hops program requires other herbs to compensate for these effects. Maybe blessed thistle really is a lot simpler.

[NotSoBusty]

I am really glad you posted this! I am trying to decide between Natureday cream and the Wonderup cream to use this summer while I have to take an involuntary hiatus from supplements. What are your two cents on the two of them?

[karen]

I'm not too worried about weak phyto-estrogens. Estrogen receptor antagonists are the real problem.

Hi Isabelle ... you say you're not worried about weak phyto-estrogens .... the quote in my previous post was in a PM that you sent me (see below) What has changed?

""Xanthohumol … this is an anti-androgen (blocks 5AR) plus it contains a weak phyto-estrogen (but lots of it) . The phyto-estrogen in xanthohumol, although weak, is a stronger binder to the estrogen receptors. As long as xanthohumol is on the receptors, it will inhibit estradiol converting estrogens from binding to the receptors. On the board, we know it takes a week to a month to clear the receptors. So what you do is take hops with a light meal. That will allow your body to metabolize the xanthohumol phyto-estrogens into a form of 8-prenylnaringenin …. Which is converted into Estradiol … good for NBE"

Chrishoney's post was a nice "theoretical representation", but I didn't see any answer as to whether the "weak phyto-estrogens" would lock out the ones from "8-prenylnaringenin" ... I guess unless the specific set of circumstances were tested it's all just guessing.

After thinking more about it I don't think it's an issue anyway .... ALL I need to do is to take my Hops with food and forget about the Hops with water ... it will still inhibit conversion to DHT (allowing more Free T to become Estradiol) AND it will also create 8-prenylnaringenin which is what we want .... at least that's what I'm thinking

Karen

[eva_bs]

Isabelle,
Fennel is Progesterone????
I thought it was Phyto-estrogen?

[Isabelle]

Hi NotSoBusty,

Natureday cream contains quite a few random ingredients that do something in herbal women's health care, but not necessarily NBE:
http://www.natureday.com/breast_cream.html
I'd put my money on the Wonderup cream:
http://www.vortexhealth.com/breastcream.html

Hi Karen,

It's really chrishoney's post that made me stop worrying about weak phyto-estrogens. And there is proof: Eve M drank hops tea along with eating hops in yogurt, and grew.

Hi Eva,

Fennel contains phyto-progestins, but no phyto-estrogens:
http://www.cancersupportivecare.com/estr...tml#table3

[eva_bs]

Isabelle ,
That is interesting!
I always thought it was phyto-estrogens. I think that I might add fennel tea to my program.
I just started a new program with PM and herbs on the second part of the month. I took only herbs that produce Progesteron.

[karen]

Eve M drank hops tea along with eating hops in yogurt, and grew.

Thanks ... always nice to have a Real Life Example

Karen

[luisa]

Hi Isabelle, you recommended trying Monohops earlier in your posts. I went ahead and ordered this product:
http://www.arzneimittelscout.de/hauptthe...uh-be.html

Is this what you meant? I paid EUR6.90 for a pack of 120 tablets (each contains 125 mg of dry extract from hops flowers 5:1) so the price is not too bad.

[Isabelle]

No luisa,

What I meant is this:
http://metagenics.eu/de/70/consumer/0/0/...ml?id=1534

[joyland]

Hello Isabelle,

I have to say first of all that i have learnt a so much from you, so many times i have searched for information from other people’s questions and so many times you have popped out of nowhere ready with an answer.

you have been like a teacher (i have always been a good student at school ) and as you have recommended various times i have done my research. i am now familiar with how Hormones, herbs, PM, BO, PC, NB work etc... considering i had not even a clue on what any of these acronyms were at the beginning i think i have done pretty well.

now as any teacher would normally do, could you please check my work?

i have in my draft process post listed what i would like to start with and im one of those people who want to consult with someone who has more experience before i do anything..

i would greatly apreciate it and i hope i can do the same to others with my Tubular situation too=]