[Isabelle]

Hi Susan,

I'm fine. Good to know you've been busy

since adding the SP I think I am seeing that dam cellulite again and when I stop SP it goes away..my question is if I take FG or GR will my waist slim down and will I not get the cellulite or lets say will that go away..

I think your best shot is fenugreek. Since the cellulite comes and goes so fast it's probably mostly water. FG against estrogen dominance should help. Try coffee or eggs too. Even coffee as a topical may help.

what is in SP that gives this kind of weight gain..yuk..I am only taking it for DHT blocking and maybe some tita gain as a bonus..

If your ankles are bloated too, it's probably estrogen dominance.

is SP the only one that blocks the androgens the best if not what would be next best thing of course other then hops..

I haven't tried it myself, but pygeum bark is supposed to be good. You can also try to do something about androgens and estrogen dominance at the same time: licorice tea or wild yam.

and I believe the SP is helping my acne too.. and I think maca makes my pores bigger..so not sure if I want to continue both or just keep maca low dose, the most I have taken is a level teaspoon or 3 caps that come to about 1500 mgs..

1,500 is certainly not too much...

as for SP I went from 450 mg per day to 2 450 mgs a day then went down cause I was getting headaches

See? I'm thinking estrogen dominance.

now I havent taken any herbs at all..so if I added FG or GR with the other 2 would it not give me the cellulite..

FG could give you just enough progesterone for a more ripped look. GR, I don't know.

I believe SP is high in not the good fat..can something be added to counteract this effect..

Maybe borage oil or flax seed?

Is SP the only thing that inhibits both forms of 5-alpha-reductase..and is it the strongest one to use..

Barley grass or rye or flax should be even better.

also SP does give me food cravings..I am wondering if I keep my diet as low in sat. fat as possible if that would help the added cellulite..

It would, but only after a while. Because this came on so fast, I don't think it's bad fat. Maybe a lot of herbal tea is diuretic enough to lose the water.

I read that SP is rich in fatty acids but which ones..

Doesn't matter. 2*450 mg is an ounce a month. There's no way you can see that in a few days.

as for maca it has alot of other good nutrients I really dont want to stop either one..the 2 together are working nice for my acne so far and period..not sure if it was the maca or SP that helped the period I think it was more of maca that did..anyway.. maybe should I ..hmmmm drop SP and add PM back but the maca and PM combo wasnt really good for me and does PM have the same blocking DHT as SP

PM will make estrogen dominance worse. It blocks DHT less than SP does.

..what I did like about PM it did give me good curves too and was looking good with maca..right now I have a gut and cellulite on the but..

The gut should go away with FG.

it was looking better before I added SP back and it came on fast too..cause a few days before my cellulite was looking not bad then added SP and within a few days I look..yuko..I am wondering is this from SP itself or is SP having me get things I shouldnt or is SP not letting me process my fats right and end result is cellulite....

You're gonna love this: just try a day with a lot of coffee. If it helps, the cellulite is mostly water

[Isabelle]

Hi lostacres6,

That's a very good idea. GR keeps the tissue stretched until you start Eve M's program.

[beachbumbythesea]

Hello again Isabelle,

All right you smart thing..hehe.. ok from what you replied back this is what I came to doing.. going to keep maca in at low dose, add FG, and WY and maybe GR but wait on that.. should I start with about 500mg of FG and WY to start, and I will take the FG with food like you do..so dropping SP and adding the other 2 I should be good with the results I am getting now minus the cellulite..I rather add the other 2 and drop SP cause also I forgot to mention that the SP still gives me slight insomnia and yes I believe you are right about the ED cause when I added the SP it was about 2 days into my period and you know that is when estro goes up.. also FG and WY has better nutrients..so it will be maca (cause maca will still give me a better booty then SP), FG, and WY...I will keep you posted..thank you..oh I do have EFA of Flax, borage, and fish but when I take them I break out and things are worse.. I also have my veggie drinks but they too make me break out..you were right about that one cause so much in it but I think it is the probiotics in it that make me break out..anyway as for a anti androgen along with WY I still have alot of barley grass handy..question should I drink it with a protein drink or just mix with water or make a tea..does a tea change things..most tell you to mix with water or juice and drink..Thank you..P.S. I think this mix is going to be good cause it seems like I become very ED and I think (from what I have read) if you are high in androgens it can make you ED already..

[joyland]

haha.. so cute with your chocolate cravings.. i am the same. Yesterday my family went out for a late dessert and they bought a 3 plate tasting platter of yummy Carb-explosive desserts... lol all i ate were the little strawberries and banana slices.. with my peppermint tea my cravings weren't as strong though.. normally i just give in.. must be past the withdrawal stage. lol

I'm glad you had time with your kids Isabelle nothing else in life can be as rewarding as the memories you make with your family.

xx

[Isabelle]

Good morning Susan,

That looks like a good plan. 500 mg FG and WY is a nice start, but as soon as you're used to them, take it up to 1,000. The two together are probably enough at 500 mg to prevent ED, but you may need more for some swelling.

The anti-androgen in barley grass is a big molecule, so I'm not sure it's ready to just dissolve in hot water in 10 minutes. So tea would not be my first choice. I'd drink it in water first, and then try the protein drink. I don't know if it makes a difference: it's still on my list of things to try.

Keep me posted. Your program is unusual, so we may learn something

Thank you Joyland,

Family desserts make the finest memories, yes. Funny thing is, I was thinking of getting some fresh and frozen fruit with the ice cream for next Sunday too. I'll look for a spearmint plant too. It simply must be possible to invent an NBE dessert that's sweet enough for the kids. You have inspired me with fresh determination

[beachbumbythesea]

Good morning Susan,

That looks like a good plan. 500 mg FG and WY is a nice start, but as soon as you're used to them, take it up to 1,000. The two together are probably enough at 500 mg to prevent ED, but you may need more for some swelling.

The anti-androgen in barley grass is a big molecule, so I'm not sure it's ready to just dissolve in hot water in 10 minutes. So tea would not be my first choice. I'd drink it in water first, and then try the protein drink. I don't know if it makes a difference: it's still on my list of things to try.

Keep me posted. Your program is unusual, so we may learn something

Thank you Joyland,

Family desserts make the finest memories, yes. Funny thing is, I was thinking of getting some fresh and frozen fruit with the ice cream for next Sunday too. I'll look for a spearmint plant too. It simply must be possible to invent an NBE dessert that's sweet enough for the kids. You have inspired me with fresh determination

Thank you Isabelle..the reason I am using low (well I guess low) estrogen herbs cause I do believe I have PCOS. well since stopping SP looking better.. I took FG and Barley grass together last night with some milk and an egg with cinnamon in a drink.. I will see how it goes today havent had anything yet.. I usually make a protein drink (not the kind with powder..just raw eggs .etc..) and put the maca in it but will put the FG in it too..I think I am going to stop taking my veggie drink cause of the soy in it ..like you said way back, and the probiotics too..it was breaking me out..anyway..I will take WY mid day or just with the shake and get everything out of the way..I may have GR at night..still thinking about it..

These is werid..I have thinking of a healthy dessert and what came to mind was taking bananas and strawberries dipped in chocolate..maybe some nuts too..here is a thought get some whipping cream and add some powdered sugar to add to them..oooh yummy

[Isabelle]

This is really weird: over the past couple of weekends, I bought three chocolate ice cream and red fruit ice cream to mix the two into a German taste. Think Schwarzwalder Kirschtorte, Sachertorte, or Wiener Torte. And just last weekend, they had fresh strawberries at my neighborhood supermarket. I was thinking of mixing those in.

I'll put the whipping cream on the shopping list right away. Fresh and frozen fruit, a mint plant, and ice cream are already on it. My younger daughter is really good at mixing smoothies.

There's also a millet porridge with berries and raisins on the list. It's a traditional dessert from one of the northern provinces of the Netherlands. My younger daughter's nails break easily, and I haven't convinced her to take a hair skin nails multi yet. She doesn't believe in pills. I hope the silicic acid in the millet makes a visible difference. My other two kids have already learned that how you look is in what you eat

[Isabelle]

I kinda like chapter 17 and appendix B of this book on PCOS:
http://www.freedomfrompcos.com/wp-conten...m-PCOS.pdf

It recommends milk thistle as an addition to fenugreek.

[beachbumbythesea]

I kinda like chapter 17 and appendix B of this book on PCOS:
http://www.freedomfrompcos.com/wp-conten...m-PCOS.pdf

It recommends milk thistle as an addition to fenugreek.

Thank you..as I was reading the info I thought about my veggie mix..I think it may have been detoxing me ..they say to start slow with green drinks..so I will do them again but even lower amount.. hey I made a protein drink with 2 eggs, milk, cinnamon, maca, FG and took my WY cap with it..well every so often I feel shooting zings in my titas..I wonder if it is the maca cause it was doing that before the FG and WY but this time it is through the whole tita before I was feel a diff sensation..oh my veggie drink has milk thistle..it has a lot of stuff..Oh I forgot to mention about when I was taking the maca that whole time it didnt give me much energy, weird.. does FG and/or WY up body temp..

[Isabelle]

Aha Susan,

It's becoming clearer. I don't know about WY, but fenugreek is warming. It increases insulin, which makes more energy from blood sugar. After fenugreek, you get a temporary decrease in blood sugar and an increase in body heat.