[Isabelle]

I'm still wondering about fenugreek and acne. Fenugreek is sold as an anti-acne supplement. But I did find this thread on the old forum:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/th...greek+Acne

Some replies say the acne is from ramping up too fast, others say it's the capsules.

[beachbumbythesea]

Hi Susan,

Azelaic acid has a good track record in acne. It's in barley grass, but also in rye and in other whole grain cereals. Zinc is an anti-androgen, but it becomes an androgen above 80 mg. That's really a lot, I doubt if anyone takes that much. Above 35 mg, zinc decreases prolactin. Recommended Dietary Intake is 12 mg, and 13 for pregnant or lactating women. This text says maca is high in zinc, but it doesn't say how much is in it:
http://www.ahealthya.com/maca_composition.htm
Vitamin B6 is also an anti-androgen. Borage oil is another one with a good track record for hair loss, but if it makes your skin oily, it's out. Flax contains another anti-androgen, so that may be worth trying too. Or maybe pygeum bark.

I think estrogen dominance is mainly caused by estradiol, because the other estrogens appear weaker in tests. Estriol just metabolizes faster, so it appears to be weaker, unless you keep making it, like in pregnancy.

I remember I slept poorly on SP, so it may give you energy, yes. ADD makes you respond differently to stimulants, though. On coffee, I become erratic, but it helps you focus.

I don't think tea or water makes a difference for hops, but extracts in alcohol are less sedative:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=41761#pid41761

GR causes only swelling and better insulin sensitivity, no progesterone increase like FG. Some women report acne on FG, but I still don't know how that happens, although it's logical if they cycle it with PM and don't take an anti-androgen in the second half of their cycles. If you block DHT efficiently, like with SP, both estrogens and progesterone will increase with LH, but that won't work for Karen because her LH is zero.

Maca improves fertility in women. Maca also metabolizes to DIM. DIM metabolizes estrogens:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=10855&pid=42585#pid42585
So maca may be better in case of estrogen dominance only. But it's really strange that it levelled out your acne. Most women break out on it.

Hi Isabelle,

Yes it is high in zinc and I think that is way it was helping me..I just cut down my dose of it cause I think I was getting too much and what you mentioned about too much zinc that may be why at first it may work then taking higher dose ups the zinc(that may be why some break out from it or ramping up too fast too).. so this is what I think I am going to do just so I dont get new acne.. take only about 500mg of maca a day just to keep everything leveling, SP about 1000mg or 500mg, and WY 400mg havent taken any WY for about 2 days..but the SP I am feeling tita pains so whatever SP is doing it is working nice.. so far I am not getting anymore new acne..

I want maca for the good nutrients and leveling hormones..SP and WY for antiandrogens and WY to help with progesterone and SP for estrogen too..You mentioned in your next post about FG and acne well I have alot of powdered..does extract mean the kind made with alcohol (dropper) if so then I may have make my own..what about making a tea..and as for taste..you mentioned maca tasting bad..I like the taste of maca..but FG taste gross.. So GR I may use cause I have some left if it works good.. then hey great...if I dont get back for a while ..its because I will be with my man..just passing through today at my dads..

[Isabelle]

Hi Susan,

I never made fenugreek tea, but I guess it will work. I just put mine in a glass of cold water. I think I got used to the taste. It's great with cauli flower by the way.

Today is my official tape day:

Weight is up to 80.0 kg, from 79.5 yesterday. Body Mass Index (BMI) is just overweight again, at 25.1. Breast circumference has increased a little to 113 cm after my first 3,000 mg of goat's rue for today. Before goat's rue, it was only 111 cm. Waist to Hip Ratio (WHR) is down to 0.80, ideal for a man, but still 0.10 to go to the feminine figure of my dreams. Six and a half months, if my waist goes on slimming at the same rate.

So the program as it is now clearly works. I was planning a two week experiment with barley grass, but I don't have any androgen symptoms right now. Even my nose isn't oily, and I'm shedding less hair than a month ago. That's normal for the time of the year, but how can I draw conclusions from a barley grass experiment if I don't have any androgen symptoms?

So how about soy? If I start now, any benefits should show up by end August. I have a 500 g bag of soy meal. At 1,000 mg a day, that's enough for a year and a half. So if it doesn't do much this summer, I can still try a box of Menohop with both hops and soy for the probiotic, which should give me the bacteria that digest soy to equol. Then I can have another go at soy next summer. OK, soy it is. I just hope it doesn't cause a stall.

Height: 178.5 cm = 5 * 30.48 + 10 * 2.54 = 5' 10"
Weight: 80.0 kg * 2.2046 lbs/kg = 176 lbs
Body Mass Index (BMI): 80.0/1.785/1.785 = 25.1
Breast: 113 cm = 44"
Under: 87 cm = 34" Difference Breast - Under = 113 - 87 = 26 cm = 10 ", US bra size 38 E (or F), EU between 85G and 85H
Waist: 80 cm = 31"
Hip: 100 cm = 39" (actually the widest part around my butt)
Waist to hip ratio (WHR): 80/100 = 0.80

Progress in 2011:
Day 11/7 26/7 08/8 22/8 05/9 19/9 3/10 17/10 31/10 14/11 28/11 12/12 27/12
BMI: 26.5 26.4 26.2 25.7 25.3 26.0 25.70 25.70 25.70 25.60 26.00 25.90 25.90
B-U: 8.00 5.00 8.00 8.00 8.00 10.0 10.00 13.00 11.00 14.00 15.00 16.00 16.00
Size 42AAA AAAA AAA AAA AAA AA 42AAA 42. A 42. A 42. A 42. B 42. B 42. B
WHR 0.95 .945 0.94 0.92 0.92 0.96 0.930 0.940 0.910 0.880 0.880 0.880 0.870

Progress in 2012:
Day 09/1 23/1 06/2 20/2 05/3 19/3 02/4 16/4 30/4
BMI: 25.7 26.7 26.4 25.9 25.7 25.3 25.7 25.0 25.1
B-U: 17.0 18.0 18.0 18.0 20.0 18.0 18.0 25.0 26.0
Size 42 B 42 C 42 C 42 C 42 D 40 C 40 D 38 F 38 F
WHR 0.84 0.86 0.84 0.86 0.84 0.84 0.83 0.81 0.80
B-U = Breast - Under in cm

[luisa]

I'm still wondering about fenugreek and acne. Fenugreek is sold as an anti-acne supplement. But I did find this thread on the old forum:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/th...greek+Acne

Some replies say the acne is from ramping up too fast, others say it's the capsules.

Hi Isabelle, a lot of women who switch to the progesterone injection as a method of birth control report acne. When I was considering a new birth control method, my gynocologist told me that if I generally breakout easily than the progesterone injection is not for me as I will definitely get acne from it. Since fenugreek increases progesterone, it may have the same effect on women who breakout easily as the progesterone injection?

[Isabelle]

Thank you luisa,

I didn't know that, but I should have known it. It's even on my favorite list of progesterone toxicity symptoms. I linked it here:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=40113#pid40113

[karen]

Hi Isabelle,

Could talk to me a little about Maca Root .... I'm seeing things like it elevates Testosterone and Estradiol ... could you tell me about the mechanics involved?

When I read elevates Testoterone do you know if they mean "Total Testosterone" and not "Free Testosterone" ... any idea how it does it? Does it play with LH and FSH? Reason I ask that is cause if it's an LH/FSH thing then it most likely would not effect my Total Testosterone .... then let's say it does elevate my Total T and I'm blocking 5AR sounds like I end up with more Estradiol .... is that where the estradiol come from or does Maca contain that too ....

You know where I'm coming from .... any help that will help me understand the ins and outs of taking Maca would be a Big Help. I'd rather not use any more Testim in a day than 1 tube .... so if I were to add to that Maca, and it raised my Total T .... which would raise my Free T (unless maca affects SHBG) and then I'd get more Estradiol PLUS if I was blocking 5AR that would use Free T for MORE Estradiol rather than DHT ... like I said ... you've got the idea ...

Thanks .... Karen

[karen]

Hi again Isabelle,

The past few days I've been seeing some things that got me thinking. I tried to have Hops, in small doses (maybe 2,000 mg), a couple of times a day thinking that it would add phtyo-estrogens to my system and be a good thing.

Well it seemed like the more times that I had my little yogurt/hops snack, the fewer symptoms of High Estrogen that I saw . So this morning I did a little surfing.

I found this .....

http://www.ehow.com/way_5501928_estrogen...foods.html

If you read down the article a ways there's a section about yogurt. Sure looks like it's saying that eating Yogurt CAN reduce Estrogen in the body. (or should I say return it to the blood stream) At the least it got me thinking. I probably can "test" the theory just by having my Hops with let's say an oatmeal. Allot less convenient but it will be interesting to see the results.

Karen

[Isabelle]

Hi Karen,

Thank you for the link, I had been looking into what dietary factors reduce estrogen, and this is a nice guide. Eve M used yogurt, I use milk.

Then maca. The article Susan found says maca digests to DIM, and DIM metabolizes estrogens. It's the first time I read about this possibility. It's possible to test it in two steps: DIM is for sale as a supplement.

The general effect of maca is nutritional. It's supposed to feed the endocrine system. I always assumed this means it increases cholesterol. Then LH determines if more pregnenolone is made from cholesterol, etc.

Only, I haven't found a study yet that confirms an increase in cholesterol, or even looked for it. Studies that measured testosterone or estrogens after maca intake found no increase, except in case of real shortages or imbalances. So a lot of literature that wants to promote maca advertises it as an "adaptogen", a term that was invented in Russia to help market ginseng. It means something like the dream supplement, it only does something if you need something, you can never take too much, etc.

So back to your questions. The literature is not clear, but I assume it increases total T, and only if you have a shortage of it. It will increase it by feeding cholesterol, so if LH is zero, I don't expect an effect, because LH decides how much pregnenolone is made from cholesterol.

This is an expectation on the basis of literature that is full of unanswered questions, contradictions, and controversy between advertisers and critics. So if you try it and find something different, I wouldn't be surprised either.

[magareea]

hello Isabelle,
just dropping by to say Hi and let you know that SP 3000mg a day you've suggested has been doing wonders preventing bad breakouts during PM.
Thank you sooooo much! you're truly awesome!

[karen]

Thank you for the link, I had been looking into what dietary factors reduce estrogen, and this is a nice guide. Eve M used yogurt, I use milk.

So are you reading this the same as me? That using Yogurt with my Hops will REDUCE the effect that I want?

Karen