[mochaccino]

They're the only standardized PM extracts available in the US, so I've been interested in them for a long time. Nature's Answer and Solgar are fairly reputable brands, but not to the point that I can be almost certain that they contain exactly what they say they contain. The fact that there are only two herbal brands in the US currently selling PM, worries me quite a lot. I'm obviously not including brands that sell PM and virtually nothing else. I wonder what, if anything, that says about the reliability of most of the PM coming out of Thailand. A few people have asked this question before and the answer always seems to be that no one is using either of these brands, or at least there weren't any responses.

Isabelle has pointed out that the mcg of miroesterol in Solgar is much lower than that claimed by some other brands, such as Ainterol. Nature's way does not even bother listing the mcg of miroestrol on their label, which is VERY strange, considering that they claim the product is standardized. On the other hand I've also heard that it's possible that Ainterol's results are either guesstimated based on research obtained from other sources or the testing is just improperly done. The infamous Carlaa managed to imply both things in one post. Then again, the post in question did not make a whole lot of sense, and I trust Carlaa's honesty and judgement about as far as I can spit. Given how little trust I put in Ainterol, I guess that makes it a wash. However, some people have definitely gotten good results from Ainterol, which is obviously more than I can say for these 2 brands.

BTW, Nature's Way is GMP certified while Solgar is not. That's odd because I've always considered Solgar to be the more reputable company. Neither company appears to participate in USP verfication, but I'm not sure how USP verification actually works. It's possible that all but a few supplement companies obtain most of their raw materials from suppliers who verify the supplements themselves, but that's just a guess. The list of companies who participate in USP verification is amazingly short.

How the heck did this post turn into a dissertation?

[Isabelle]

Hi Mochaccino,

I haven't looked into Nature's Answer yet, but Solgar PM Phytogen Complex is illegal in the EU now, if only because it contains 40,000 % of the Recommended Dietary Allowance of vitamin B12. Megadose vitamin supplements were banned here last year.

That's maybe why they didn't bother with Good Manufacturing Practice (GMP) certification. GMP is a quality standard that has been enforced in the food industry for years. It became mandatory for supplements in the EU last year. It's mainly about requirements for documentation. In short: if a manufacturer has been buying raw materials from the same farmer for 40 years, it's OK. If the farmer leaves the business to his son, the manufacturer needs to prepare documents proving that the quality is not at risk.

In addressing the concern that you raised, supply chain integrity, USP just made a start "proposing a set of recommended best practices":
http://us.vocuspr.com/ViewAttachmentStri...SgnbFzE%3d
So apparently, they don't guarantee or enforce anything. The fact that they have offices in India, China, and Brasil gets me worried rather than reassured.

At the heart of the problem is Big Pharma's outsourcing the manufacture of medicines to India in the past decades. The result was a flood of counterfeit medicines. That's why I encourage forum members in India to purchase their herbs as close as possible to the agricultural source. I don't know if this problem has spread to Thailand yet, but this is how the PM trade works:
http://www.alibaba.com/countrysearch/TH/...owder.html

I hope I'm not offending forum members in India or Thailand. If it helps for consolation: I buy my herbs as close as possible to the agricultural source here in The Netherlands too.

For supplements, there are no requirements for supply chain verification or proof of effectiveness yet in the EU. Imports are simply stopped at the border and analysed for the most obvious signs of contamination or adulteration, like heavy metals. Registered supplements go free, but registration requires documented proof that the supplement is safe to use.

Now with the above in mind, how does Nature's Answer look?
http://www.naturesanswer.com/p-842-puera...0vegc.aspx
It's illegal in the EU because of the 8,333 % of the Recommended Dietary Allowance of vitamin B12.
According to the PDF of the label, the PM root extract is from Bio-Botanica, Inc:
http://www.naturesanswer.com/description..._26187.pdf
Bio-Botanica is a family business, the products are certified organic, and not tested on animals:
http://www.bio-botanica.com/
but the first thing they advertise is:
"Our exclusive focus is to create products tailored to your requirements, with strict confidentiality."
Products tailored to customer requirements, with strict confidentiality, are what the counterfeit medicine business thrives on. If that is their exclusive focus, where is the concern for the health of the end user of the product?

[mochaccino]

Everything you said is extremely interesting and relevant, and honestly a little frightening. You might remember that I was dead set on starting a PM program before I suddenly changed my mind and chose to use other herbs. There were several reasons, but the main reason was that I just didn't completely trust any of the PM retailers I was aware of. Everything about the way that PM is currently sold in the US seems extremely fishy to me. It reminds me a lot of what happened to hoodia, after the major, reputable brands washed their hands of it. Maybe the best thing about the herbs I'm currently taking is that they are so common, cheap, and easily recognizable that they are just not worth counterfeiting. That's the major advantage of using regular herbs and spices rather than things that are generally only available as supplements.

Do you find Ainterol's claims believable? Are you aware of any other brands that list the mcg of miroestrol in their products?

[Isabelle]

Hi mochaccino,

I agree with your conclusions. About Ainterol, well, at least people on the forum grew on it.

If you go one post up from this one:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=10438&pid=40536#pid40536
there is a link to a complete report on puerariathai.

I trust the efforts of those companies more than the reputation of well known supplement brands who sell you a megadose vitamin B12 supplement as PM.

[godiva72]

I just started taking Natures Answer PM, and wish I bought the Ainterol brand instead. This is because the actual PM content of Nature's Answer is only 100mg and the rest of it is mega doses of B vitamins. So one pill has 8333% of B12.

From what I read, for PM to work you need to take 3 x 500mg per day, but that would mean I need to take 15 of the Natures Answer pills to get the same effect. With the mega doses of other vitamins, I am thinking this would be very risky and unhealthy.

I have been taking it 2 days. So far, my period has gotten heavier, I am getting hot flashes and headaches. I may have to discontinue and consider purchasing Ainterol.

[jiberish]

deoxymiroestrol is the main phytoestrogen in PM if you are looking for that