[Isabelle]

Hi karen and luisa,

I'm sorry for the confusion. After reading this year's literature on zearalenone, I'm a lot less worried about it than I have been since 2003. It used to be called a mycotoxin, but it's just a mycoestrogen that behaves like any other estrogen.

There's nothing toxic in hops either. Only, I don't know a quick way to check if hops tea with a meal works as well as dried hops in milk or yogurt. Estrogens work slowly, so the only way to know for sure is to try it for a few months.

[luisa]

Thanks, Isabelle.

[karen]

There's nothing toxic in hops either.

Not saying there's anything "toxic" in the Hops BUT how do you know what is or what isn't in the Hops. You said you didn't even know if they've cleaned the barrel they store it in for decades ... I'm sure that no "chemical analysis" is done before they ship it ... and there's no label that gives a "breakdown" of what's in it .... realistically it sounds like you are "assuming" that's it's OK.

I'm not trying to be picky ... but it does concern me how loosely this stuff is monitored or the fact that it is not tested against some "standard". There is really no certainty as to what it contains or doesn't.

Karen

[Pansy-Mae]

Karen,
I don't want to hi-jack Isabelle's thread, but the 'safety' of unknown and unknowable possible contaminants is an endless and ultimately pointless argument, IMO. Nobody ever knows for sure what might or might not be in anything they consume, from water onwards and whether it grows in their own garden or comes from an unknown jungle on the far side of the world. All we can do is place a certain amount of faith in suppliers and make our own best guess as to whether the possible benefits outweigh the possible risks. certainly no point in getting paranoid about it.

Many years ago when the furore about 'E numbers' first started there was an article in the Journal of the Royal Institute of Food Science and Technology here in the UK. It was written by a very respected food scientist at the time warning of the dangers of even approved food additives and it concluded by pointing out that of all the things we consume, food is by far the most dangerous. Food is so dangerous that no government in the world has published RDI figures. Food is so dangerous that there is no safe minimum dose, even people who haven't eaten for weeks will die. Food is in fact so dangerous that anyone who has ever eaten anything at all, still dies!!

[karen]

Reply deleted ....

I had second thoughts .... I really don't want to get preachy .....

Karen

[Isabelle]

Hi Karen and Pansy Mae,

I wish I could take away some of the unsettling effects of posting on zearalenone. If this helps: of all the places where I buy herbs, foods, meds and cosmetics, Jacob Hooy is the one I'm least worried about. And of all the possible contaminants in herbs, zearalenone is among the most closely monitored and documented:
http://wageningenacademic.metapress.com/...lltext.pdf
http://wageningenacademic.metapress.com/...lltext.pdf

I do agree that continuing awareness of everything you consume daily is necessery. But the most worrying mistakes I have made in recent years were in supplements, not in herbs or foods.

I wasn't planning on changing my program before May 28th, but after tonight, I'll be out of my multivitamin. I'm not too happy with the new one I've bought. I usually buy them when they're 50 % off. I want
vitamin B6 2-10 mg
vitamin B12 50-80 µg
folic acid 200-400 µg
zinc 12-35 mg
no iron (women who menstruate regularly should take 18-25 mg)

I buy them at www.detuinen.nl
I got 120 tablets of the one that's running out (multi totaal 50+) for € 9.49.
It contained
vitamin B6 3 mg
vitamin B12 25 µg
folic acid 400 µg
zinc 15 mg
no iron
so I only had to worry about getting enough vitamin B12, from meat.

I got 90 tablets of the new one (multi vitaal 50+) for € 8.99.
It contains
vitamin B6 25 mg
vitamin B12 25 µg
folic acid 200 µg
zinc 0.7 mg
no iron
so I still have to worry about getting enough vitamin B12, but also zinc from meat, fish, and seafood. In addition, I need to eat more dark green, leafy vegetables for folic acid. I was already taking the multi at night, but now I have to, because vitamin B6 is sedative above 10 mg.

[SarahSchilling]

No problem Sarah,

Don't break. Just take the milk thistle along with the rest, just don't take more than 250 mg. If you're worried about your liver, consider FG.

Hey Isabelle,

It's been awhile since this reply, but I've been taking milk thistle extract at the recommended dosage on the bottle, which is 175mg twice a day.

Which comes out to 350mg a day...which is over your recommended amount of 250. Anyways, I was wondering if this would be ok, and if not, what the effects would be of taking too much of it.

Thanks...and on a seperate topic, I'm thinking of adding Fennel tea to combat estrogen dominance from PM. I've taken it before, but was never too clear on what a good dose of it would be.

I usually just take the seeds like you find in the spice section of a grocery store, put them in a glass, and pour boiling water over them, let it steam for 15 minutes or so and drink.

Basically I'm wondering how much of the seeds to use, and if this method of preparation is a good one.

[eva_bs]

Hi Isabelle,
I wanted to ask from where do you buy your herbs from?
I bought my herbs from GreenBush and I had to pay a lot for customs. I bought 300 capsules of FG,WY and SP. I also bought 3 packages of the Bustea. I also want to add in Fennel and Probably Goat's rue. I tried taking PM but it delayed my Period again! I think that it is too strong for me. I produce a lot of estrogen....so I don't think that it is good to add on something that produces more estrogen in my body. I am not on day 38 of my cycle...tomorrow I will finally get my period. ooo...I was also thinking to add in L-Tyrosine and Vitex. what do you think?
BTW if you buy your herbs in powder form so how do I know how much fennel will be o.k. or goat's rue?
I was thinking to buy everything in powder next time and maybe make my own capsules....or I will just take the herbs like Eve M did. she ate them with smashed potato's.
Thank you so much for your help!

[Isabelle]

Hi Sarah,

The problem with too much milk thistle is allergy. Twister Mama described it in her program thread. Spacing them well apart during the day, I used three times 250 mg a day for a month in June. It felt like static electricity all over my skin. But 2*175 mg sounds reasonable, as long as you leave enough time between the two.

I made eight cups of fennel tea from one teaspoon powdered seed. One or two cups a day is enough, 400 mg. You can keep the tea in the fridge. Weigh the bag to know how much you have used in a couple of months. I used powdered seed, because I'm afraid the phyto-progestins will not extract into hot water through the skins of the seeds. Starting from powdered seeds, your method of preparation is good. Only 15 minutes is short. Try 20 minutes, putting a lid over the cup to keep it warm.

[Isabelle]

Hi Eva,

I buy all the herbs from local herb shops, drug stores, and supermarkets:
Fenugreek, fennel, and black seed from http://www.amazingoriental.com/
Hops and goat's rue from http://www.jacob-hooy.nl/
Maca from http://www.vanderpigge.nl/
Oats and flax seed from http://www.dekamarkt.nl/
Multivitamin and L-arginine from http://www.detuinen.nl/
I'm sure fenugreek is easy to find in Israel: it's in pastrami

I just use teaspoons and tablespoons to measure the herbs, weigh a bag and make a note when I start it, and back-calculate the dose when it's empty. For seeds and powders, one teaspoon is a good starting dose. For hops, I use a tablespoon. For goat's rue, I have a 5 ml measuring spoon that came with the maca. It's the size of an egg spoon.

I have no experience with L-tyrosine, and little with vitex. L-tyrosine is normally used for hypothyroidism, and vitex is for the luteal phase. I usually advise to try something milder like fenugreek or wild yam first. Then a phyto-progestin, like fennel, and if all else fails, progesterone cream.