[Isabelle]

Yes Sarah,

You are absolutely right. Oats decrease Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG). So you get more free testosterone, but also more free DHT, because SHBG binds DHT even more strongly than it binds testosterone.

I take 8,400 mg oat flakes a day, but that's to balance my flax seed. Flax seed increase SHBG. Without flax, 1,000-2,000 mg oats is plenty.

[SarahSchilling]

Heh, It's ironic...I was trying to eat healthier here, and ended up killing my growth.

I'm gonna eat bacon everynight instead. Need to fatten up I think. This does explain why I didn't get any growth tingles from going cold turkey on the PM though. Compared to most people I don't think I was taking enough PM to stall in the first place (1000-2000mgs/day)

I'm going to resume it at a small dose, cut out the oats, and try to eat as many calories as I can.

I'm just glad I read this....kinda a waste of money on PM if I'm killing my progress through diet.

Thanks again lol

[minkerbell]

Thank you Isabelle, I wasn't aware of that...Think I'll go easy on the licorice tea - maybe better if I drink fennel and/or spearmint instead? Do you think that I'd do better by staying away from the phyto estrogens altogether?
And one last question: since I am using the noogleberry, do you think that by adding GR there might be a chance of induced lactation?
Thank you
x

[karen]

You are absolutely right. Oats decrease Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG). So you get more free testosterone, but also more free DHT, because SHBG binds DHT even more strongly than it binds testosterone.

Hi Isabelle ....

I have some questions. I understand what you're saying here .... lower SHBG means that you will have more Free T (if total T levels remain the same). And generally since you have more Free T unless you've reached the limit of your 5 alpha reductase then your body produces more DHT. Of the DHT that you produced it sounds like "how much of that DHT actually binds to receptors" is lowered as SHBG is lowered. Doesn't that mean the DHT would have LESS EFFECT on your body since the part that binds is the part that has an effect. If DHT doesn't bind to hair follicles or your prostate gland then it DOES NOT an effect on them. Like if Estrogen doesn't bind to it receptors then it doesn't produce the results of having high Estrogen. (like NBE)

Is there something else going on here? It sounds like it

Karen

[Isabelle]

Hi Belle,

You can test how much estrogens you can handle. Progesterone is naturally zero from day 25 to day 11. Ramp up a phyto-estrogen, and by the time you get headaches, you know it's too much. You could take more by balancing it out with FG or so, but in general, you want to be able to do without any progesterone supplements before ovulation.

Getting a cycle going is the first goal for you. I mean, you have one, but for some reason your breasts didn't grow on it. For now, we assume the problem is lack of progesterone, since you do well on PC. So fennel and spearmint for luteal phase is a good pair to try for you, yes. In the luteal phase, many women can handle some estrogens, as long as progesterone stays on top. But because of your excellent experience with PC, why not aim for zero estrogens in luteal phase, at least for a while? In the follicular phase, I'd go for phyto-estrogens only, for now. Because licorice contains both phyto-estrogens and phyto-progestins, I would be careful with it.

Lactation. Sigh. I'm not a regular reader of NB reviews, so I don't really know how many women lactate on it, but my guess is: few. On the other hand, since you were able to breast feed for a long time, I'd say you are high on the list to join them. Avoid too many oxytocin rushes while noogling on days when you are not using PC. As long as you have enough progesterone, it will suppress lactation, just like it does during pregnancy.

[Isabelle]

Hi karen,

It's the other way round: the protion of DHT that can bind to receptors increases as SHBG is lowered.

But my answer to Sarah is a simplification. Suppose, as you wrote, all 5α-reductase isozymes are effectively blocked. Then there is no DHT to begin with. In that case, lowering SHBG only increases free testosterone. That free testosterone will become estrogens.

So once all androgen symptoms are under control, high oats doses help NBE. I don't understand why, but Menohop seems to have lowered your DHT, because libido is low. So you could try oat flakes. I have tried it in December, and I want to try it again. Oat flakes are the lowest priced NBE herb I use. And L-arginine and maca do very little that oats couldn't do.

[minkerbell]

Hi Isabelle,
thank you so, so much for your very detailed reply. You really are a goldmine of information!!

That sounds really good - is there ever a chance to overdo it on progesterone? If I use the PC, Vitex, GR and Fennel/Spearmint, is that overkill?

I will definitely look into phytoestrogens for the follicular phase. Funnily enough, on my pregnancies, I never experienced morning sickness in the beginning, just severe headaches. Another sign of estro dominance I wonder???

Thank you so much Isabelle, after 17 months of NBE I feel like I'm finally getting somewhere!!
Lots of gratitude and appreciation for you!

Belle

[Isabelle]

You're welcome, Belle,

And yes, you can stall on progesterone. So the same rules as in an estrogen ramp up apply. Add one at a time, take one or two weeks to tune the dose of each. Ramp up in a few days until you feel something. Check Surfer Joe's post I linked above for vitex and dong quai doses. Vitex is an anti-prolactin, so don't take it together with GR. GR doses are high: upwards of 3,000 mg. Fennel doses are low: 400 mg. Use less PC than the dose on the tube. Journal dr. Lee's test and the feelings in your breasts daily so you can read back to where an overdose began. You can't stall on spearmint, but enough is enough: once all 5α-reductase is inhibited, androgen symptoms are gone.

Morning sickness is caused by the increase in estrogens at the beginning of pregnancy. Headaches are a symptom of estrogen dominance. So progesterone was certainly lagging behind, but estrogens may have been low too. Take pictures to record the shape of your breasts. You may need to experiment with estrogens later to grow longer milk ducts.

You're getting somewhere when you're tearing up bras. We'll celebrate when you ritually burn all the bras that have become too small. I burned my A cups on Ruigoord in 2006

[karen]

I don't understand why, but Menohop seems to have lowered your DHT, because libido is low.

Hi ...

It wasn't the Menohop ... it was the SP and the Xanthohumol in the Hops ...

Karen

[Isabelle]

Aha karen,

Now I understand. Thanks.

Still trying to wrap my mind around your previous post. Or rather, around what it ultimately means. The Testosterone Replacement Therapy works. The Menohop works. So that can make hops work for almost anyone.

There's oats to choose any SHBG level at any age. There's fenugreek, goat's rue, black seed, and milk thistle for waist slimming. There's maca for a bubble butt.

This is getting up to the level where it deserves more publicity. Becoming an all natural cougar regardless of age and sex? It can be done