[karen]

The Menohop works. So that can make hops work for almost anyone.

We still need to see if the effect remains after Menohop is stopped AND I want to "validate" my testing some more.

This is getting up to the level where it deserves more publicity. Becoming an all natural cougar regardless of age and sex? It can be done

Maybe you are an all natural cougar ... I'm more like a kinky sob that likes to play with sh*t

Karen

[karen]

I don't understand why, but Menohop seems to have lowered your DHT, because libido is low.

Hi ...

It wasn't the Menohop ... it was the SP and the Xanthohumol in the Hops ...

Karen

I got to thinking more about this .... I didn't really increase the amount of SP or Hops ... so it seems that the extra Estradiol MUST have played a part in this.

For perspective this was this AM

2,000 mg SP and 5,000 mg Hops in Cottage Cheese with 1 Menohop Capsule and 1 tube of "prescribed" Testim .... my 5,000 mg Hops is equivalent to your 3,200 ... BTW the Hops extract DOES NOT make me sleepy ... which is REAL GOOD if I want to take it in the morning.

FG does make me tired ... I'm sure I don't have the timing of eating part right yet.

Karen

[GorgeousBlonde]

Isabelle, you will notice I take SP and spearmint tea. I used SP only for a while but didn't notice much effect. I think spearmint tea might be more powerful. Only my opinion.

[Pansy-Mae]

Today is my regular tape day.

Yesterday, I had yogurt for dessert with the kids, but my weight is still 1 lb up from the day before, to 82.5 kg. Body Mass Index (BMI) is even more overweight (25
Breast circumference is the same as two days ago, at 115 cm, or 45 ". Band size has decreased from 89 to 88 cm, but that still rounds to 35 ". Actually, it's 34.65 ". I'm still a US 40 DD, but if my under bust size drops a tiny 0.15 ", I'd be a 38 G. In EU sizes, I'm at 90 H, because the difference between bust and under bust sizes has increased from 26 to 27 cm.

Body Mass Index (BMI): 82.5/1.785/1.785 = 25.9
Breast: 115 cm = 45"
Under: 88 cm = 35" Difference Breast - Under = 115 - 88 = 27 cm = 11 ", US bra size 40 DD, EU 90 H

Hi Isabelle,
Something occurred to me and it probably has to you already, but I thought I'd mention it.
According to "The Bra makers Handbook" 34DD boobs weight 3.00 - 3.5lbs EACH, so I'm not sure what 40DD's weigh but I guess you have to be looking at best part of 10lbs between them and obviously continually increasing as you grow bigger!
So, on that basis you are chasing the impossible in trying to lose weight at the same time.
Also, are you calculating male BMI or female BMI? because with that load on your chest female might be more appropriate.

[minkerbell]

Ah yes, burning those A-cup bras would truly be a momentous event!!
Not getting any hopes up, but I feel like I'm finally beginning to get a slight understanding of how all of this works. Slight!!
I will take everything you've said on board and start to experiment a bit with the ramping up of herbs. I'm terrified of losing what little I have gained (like I did when I was using the PM cream) but then again - nothing ventured, nothing gained. Thank you so much again. I really, really appreciate all your help on this.

Belle x

[Isabelle]

You're welcome, minkerbell,

And karen,

I couldn't quite put my finger on it, but that's what struck me as peculiar, yes: maybe the isoxanthohumol is an anti-androgen too. FG lowers blood pressure and it causes a blood sugar dip. If those occur at the same time, you're headed for the couch.

GorgeousBlonde,

Possibly, yes. I haven't taken SP for years, and I use spearmint without thinking. It's in my moroccan mint tea, together with licorice and cinnamon, and there's a fresh spearmint plant on the kitchen window sill. Next to it are two basil plants. Those are anti-androgens too.

And yes, Pansy Mae,

It did occur to me. A slimmer waist is still on my wish list, and if herbs don't get me there, the old Roman war engines will: shapewear, Maidenform, and my old steel boned corsets. But I'd secretly like a bigger butt too. The weight will be resulting. I don't even know if Joan Collins ever had a BMI below 25. I'll look up a formula for a female BMI.

[Pansy-Mae]

Later, I found out milk thistle contains phyto-estrogens too. So the phyto-estrogens on the receptors in the breasts may just be replaced by different ones. That means my break was not very different from what Pansy Mae did, replacing PM with my hops program for a month. That helped for a while, but Pansy Mae did not start a prolonged, steady growth cycle like I did.

Some people on the forum are convinced a week is plenty for a break. It's not completely clear how long you can to take a stalling dose before you actually stall either. The stall is over when Luiteinizing Hormone (LH) comes up to a normal level again. So that means blood work or saliva testing, or maybe a DIY ovulation testing kit can be used for that too. Without testing, it's a leap of faith: I just took my herbs diligently for four months and saw growth.

Ok, thoughts please? ( I know I'm acting rather like a headless chicken at the moment!!)

Following the above and subsequent exchanges about deliberately going beyond stalling, and/or the efficacy of Milk Thistle, I decided to do a couple of trials and see what happened.
First I went up to 3500mg PM per day for three days (3 x 500mg morning and evening plus an extra one at bedtime). That's 500mg higher than I've ever done before. The first night I woke up with a headache. No surprise there, but it went with a couple of ibuprofen, which was a surprise.
During the second day, I had a feeling that the normal 'growing pains' weren't as strong as usual, but they do fluctuate anyway so I didn't think much of it.
On the third day I was sure the pains were less, and I assumed I was definitely stalling and heading over the barrier. no difference over night, but definitely less 'uncomfortable'. So I took my 1000mg PM on the 4th morning but then went cold turkey on PM and changed to MilkThistle, 2x175mg morning and evening and nothing else. I've been doing that since Monday morning and over the past 3 days the pains have dropped to nothing.There is still the underlying extreme tenderness in the buds themselves, but other than that, zero.

It may be paranoia setting in, I know that, but this morning I'm sure that the left one, which has always tended to be smaller, is starting to lose volume already.
So, can anyone throw light on what may be happening?

[Isabelle]

Hi Pansy Mae,

I used 3 * 250 mg milk thistle for a month, and lost size. So try doubling it, in two steps for safety.

Including the stall, you've been on a break for over a week. I wouldn't try milk thistle for more than a week anyway. If you start the PM after that, you may have three answers: the stalling dose, your milk thistle tolerance, and the necessary length of a break.

If you don't start growing again and keep the loss, a low PM dose is probably the safest place to pause and think again.

[Pansy-Mae]

Hi Pansy Mae,

I used 3 * 250 mg milk thistle for a month, and lost size. So try doubling it, in two steps for safety.

Including the stall, you've been on a break for over a week. I wouldn't try milk thistle for more than a week anyway. If you start the PM after that, you may have three answers: the stalling dose, your milk thistle tolerance, and the necessary length of a break.

If you don't start growing again and keep the loss, a low PM dose is probably the safest place to pause and think again.

Thanks Isabelle,

Hmmm... those are roughly the lines I was thinking along, so that's good to know.
The reason I picked on 4 x 175mg MT, was that you had said 3 x250 and 700mg isn't too far off the same dose. I was a bit concerned at going higher partly because of Twister Mama's experience ( although I know that was extreme) and partly because on my bottle it recommends only 2 or 3 caps per day and I'm already at 4.

I had it in mind to do a full week on MT alone so I think I will try to keep to that and perhap try adding in one more capsule, whilst keeping an eye ( both eyes!) on the size question, and then go back on PM.

Exactly this time last year I took a complete break and although I lost volume whilst on the break, it was in the two months between now and July that the photos show my greatest development, at which point I stopped dead!
If I could repeat that experience, I think I'd be as big as I want to be anyway.

We are off on holiday in 10 days time and I was really hoping I could wear a bikini...my wife has bought me three!... but I don't think I'm going to be big enough to do them justice.

[Isabelle]

In that situation, I'd go for swelling. Goat's rue, fenugreek, black seed, any breast feeding herb.