[Pansy-Mae]

I tried the flowers for about 4 days although whether I actually ingested any significant quantity is open to debate.
At that point I just gave up on it. Tried the capsules for another couple of weeks, as part of Isabelle's programme, but the GR tea was playing havoc with my prostate problem so I had to stop that, and then it all became somewhat pointless so I went back to PM.

[Pansy-Mae]

Isabelle,
Knowing your concern over your weight/BMI, you might like to look at this BBC page - for fun only, IMO, even though they think they are serious.
According to them I have the physique of a Cambodian (!) and if every male in the world had my physique, it would knock over 17 MILLION TONNES of fat from the worlds population weight!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-18770328

[karen]

I tried the flowers for about 4 days although whether I actually ingested any significant quantity is open to debate.
At that point I just gave up on it. Tried the capsules for another couple of weeks, as part of Isabelle's programme, but the GR tea was playing havoc with my prostate problem so I had to stop that, and then it all became somewhat pointless so I went back to PM.

The one thing that I am finding is that using individual herbs is a very delicate balancing act that requires lots of knowledge. That goodness that we have Isabelle. Everytime that I learn something new and post what I think, I find that it spins off into another layer that adds more questions. The PLUS side to individual herbs is that I can control exactly what I take and in what amounts. I'm really more interested in learning than growing permanent boobs so I guess it's working for me. BUT it is a slow learning process.

Karen

[Isabelle]

And I would add 32 million tonnes. At least I'm below the Dutch and the Belgian averages

Thank you Karen,

The hops you found must be pretty good. Mine wouldn't do anything at 1,500 mg. At my current dose (3,500 mg), the nap comes earlier, but is shorter: half an hour to an hour. For anything like a rush, I have to take a double dose: 7,000 mg.

[karen]

And I would add 32 million tonnes. At least I'm below the Dutch and the Belgian averages

Thank you Karen,

The hops you found must be pretty good. Mine wouldn't do anything at 1,500 mg. At my current dose (3,500 mg), the nap comes earlier, but is shorter: half an hour to an hour. For anything like a rush, I have to take a double dose: 7,000 mg.

You are kinda used to it too .... I'd consider you "WELL RAMPED UP"

Karen

[Isabelle]

In other words, I may be buying my hops in the streets some day

I didn't report that I made some dietary adjustments to be nice to the bacteria. I took up drinking wine and eating cans of salmon and switched to ω-3 fatty acid enriched mayonnaise because alcohol and poly-unsaturated fatty acid intake correlates with equol production from the daidzein in soy:
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/137/10/2242.full

I don't overdo the wine because it's bad for 8-PN production from hops:
"Recent antibiotic therapy seemed to affect the 8-PN production negatively. Furthermore, strong equol producers reported higher poly-unsaturated fatty acid and alcohol intakes, whereas strong 8-PN producers consumed less alcohol and more theobromine."
http://www.actahort.org/books/848/848_25.htm
Theobromine is in tea, kola nut, and... chocolate!

[ssag124]

Hey all! (again lol)

I don't know if anyone here has experienced this but does anyone happen to know what specific weight gain in the arms signify? Ironically, when I was taking fg/wy/sp on a somewhat sporadic basis a couple of years ago, my arms remained small. However, whenever I gain weight my arms are like the first things to get bigger (grr!!!). Isabelle, do you have any thoughts of how to get rids of arm fat - I asked this because I wasn't sure if this was a commonality between nbe and weight gain in that region. btw i'm 21 years old lol.

Also, I really hope I'm not irritating anyone by asking this question - due to the fact that most people have slightly different goals. But karen, I know you were discussing the mechanisms of estrogen and how that relates to NBE. I personally wanted to know what ways in which and in what time frame does estrogen by way of NBE herbs affect secondary characteristics such as gaining weight in the lower region (i.e. hips, butt etc). Correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason why estrogen adds weight to the hips is to prepare the women for pregnancy, right? In order to promote estrogenic fat gain in those areas - does it work the same way in growing breasts in which there needs to be a balancing act? or does it happen as a result of any estrogenic activity that may be going on in the body (whether it be from phytoestrogens or an increase in estradiol)? I assume that one has to have estrogen receptors in those areas to start with, so if a person does have estrogen receptors in the lower body region - how does the weight gain happen? lol I'm sure the all-knowing Isabelle would be able to provide some info.

I apologize, I'm sure the last question could have been surmised into one line - however I often have a hard time explaining myself, thus resulting in such a long answer. lol I'm just trying to understand the mechanism of how it works, if possible.

[Isabelle]

Hi ssag124,

If it's not muscle, bigger arms are a good sign. It means your natural estrogens are up. Look at the last stage of Chiyomilk skin brushing. Moe linked the video at the bottom of this post:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=11736&pid=48934#pid48934

If you have a topical with FG, or PC, try it on your arms.

I always assumed there are estrogen receptors around the hips. Let's see what Karen's thoughts are.

[karen]

Morning ... morning here anyway

So yesterday I tried 2,000 mg Whole Hops with Yogurt and raisins and a little honey ... I have to say it was a "tad" nasty. As the amount of Hops increase the harder it will be to cover the taste.

To add insult to injury I felt nothing from the 2,000 mg dose. Strange since I had felt 1,500 the day before ... so I looked over my notes. The day before I had taken Liquid Hops Extract in the AM and then the 1500 Whole Hops later in the day .... yesterday I didn't take anything in the AM .... less residual hops in my system prior to taking the whole hops ... at least that makes sense. So last night I took a dose of liquid extract ... about 4 hours after the whole hops. I didn't want to break my NBE cycle. I haven't had any FG for two days yet my "tiny little boobs" are rounded (actually kinda pretty if I must say so myself) and firm this morning. When I am in bed on my side they actually droop towards the mattress. Maybe that's why I don't sleep great ... I keep waking up and playing with them

I have that "awareness feeling in them" again this morning ... no pains, shoots, anything like that. It seems that I am in the "fatty tissue redistribution" phase.

I'm thinking of expanding my list of anti-androgens. Right now I take Standardized SP ... I just got a bunch of Spearmint Tea in .... and I'm thinking about adding stinging nettle root .... I would take SP and SNR everyday on a regular basis and drink spearmint tea a couple of times each day.

I would like a source for Prolaction .... I know FG has some but I'd like to take less FG and add something that is PURELY Prolactin (goat's rue or black seed?) I really like the idea of being able to be specific for amounts and effect.

Question about the Hops Strobiles too .... do you chew them or just suck them down with your porridge. Gets kinda nasty when you hit a big one while chewing.

More later .... hugs, Karen

[Isabelle]

Good morning Karen,

I have doubts about stinging nettle:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=47996&highlight=nettle#pid47996
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=11687&pid=48575&highlight=nettle#pid48575

I drink goat's rue tea to increase prolactin without increasing progesterone. Make sure you find a source of affordable bulk herb: you'll need 7 g a day. I think Susan got it from Mountain Rose herbs.

I chew the hops strobiles. If you really hate it, try premixing the porridge in the blender. At least your dose is beginning to make sense now.