[Isabelle]

Yes, it's a fine line. On one side, there was a time when my whole life and family were sabotaged by my fetishism. Right now, when I take enough hops, my therapist comments: "What kind of life is that, when all the excitement is gone at age 51?" Being able to use it for excitement is healthy, being the slave of it is a problem.

Update: since I upped the hops, I stopped shedding hair, and my skin is smooth. I'm thinking of upping fenugreek too, after the next tape day.

[karen]

"What kind of life is that, when all the excitement is gone at age 51?" Being able to use it for excitement is healthy, being the slave of it is a problem.

Wise Words

So here's the latest "lab rat" report ..... this is from my Journal

"As I said earlier I didn’t sleep too good last night … I’m still dreaming allot. I still keep getting an erection. I SWEAR my boobs feel larger this morning.

Today is day 4 of no SP … just about 96 hours ... Also day 4 for no Menohop … All I been taking is Testim, Liquid Hops or Dried Hops … with Spearmint Tea thrown in every so often.

Things are for sure changing. My feet are feeling more swollen … my Boobs are feeling more swollen … I’m dreaming intensely at night … not sleeping as well … don’t know why but having more erections at night … women are turning me on more and more … I’m NOT noticing an increased sense of smell right now … I’m even tempered … feeling generally real good. Other than right after the Spearmint Tea yesterday I’m not having any headaches.

I’m going to continue using ONLY Hops, Testim, and Spearmint Tea for a while more. If Estrogen is really getting higher I should be feeling less DHT symptoms and more Estrogen symptoms."

End of excerpt ....

I still don't understand the erection and labido thing. I've gone back over my notes and there appears to be a pattern that for some insane reason there is always a point when I should have High Estrogen levels based on what I am doing AND I seem to have an INCREASED labido ... not what I'd expect. I have also times when I've LOADED UP on Estrogen Helping DHT Killer things and have lost ALL labido ...

Beats me ....

This was yesterdays regime ...

• 5:47 AM … 6,000 mg of Liquid Hops Extract in WATER
• 6:05 AM … 1 ½ tubes of Testim
• 9:45 AM … 2 bag mug of Spearmint Tea
• 10:30 AM … getting a slight headache
• 6:15 PM … 2,000 mg of Hops Strobiles PLUS 3,000 mg of Hops Liquid Extract with Yogurt (Strobiles were broken up in my hands)


karen

[Isabelle]

Hi Karen,

Don't know either. Did you have the high libido after the spearmint too? After all, you are taking 1 1/2 tubes of testim. I'm pretty sure hops blocks 5α-reductase type 1 well, but I'm not so sure about type 2 and the other three isozymes of 5α-reductase. I think SP blocks both types 1 and 2. So the type 2 may have released SP, and could be available for making some DHT from the testosterone.

[mochaccino]

Pretty soon I'll be starting my new PM program using Ainterol. I'm trying to copy Ginnie's program, but she usually used St.Herb at half the recommended dosage. I want to try to use roughly the same amount of miroesterol as she did, at least until I know how much I personally need. Do you know how the two brands compare to each other in miroestrol content or where I can find that info myself?

[karen]

Hi there Isabelle,

I don't know what to say other than I'll hang in there and see how things go. I’m going to continue using ONLY Hops, Testim, and Spearmint Tea for a while more. If Estrogen is really getting higher I should be feeling less DHT symptoms and more Estrogen symptoms.

Here's today

• 5:00 AM … 6,000 mg of Liquid Hops Extract in WATER on an empty stomach to act soley as an anti-androgen
• 5:41 AM … 1 ½ tubes of Testim
• 6:40 AM … 2 bag mug of Spearmint Tea ... anti-androgen
• 5:45 PM … 3,500 mg of Hops Strobiles with Yogurt ... digested, phyto-estrogen

I'll post an update in the morning ... I'm expecting a dream filled night tonight

karen

[karen]

Well last night was indeed a dream filled event. I don't remember very much about them BUT my "honey" did say I was mumbling rather loudly in my sleep

I am still confused ... along with the dreams I again had an erect night.

Maybe I'm missing something ... or maybe something needs to be changed ... or NOT.

1st thing in the morning when I have an empty stomach I've been taking 6 mL of Liquid Hops Extract in WATER. That is supposed to be equivalent to 6,000 mg of dried Hops. Along with it I have a mug of Coffee (a little milk added) That is "supposed" to act as a 5a-reductace inhibitor so when I use my Testim DHT production is blocked or at least lowered so the Free T becomes Estradiol instead of DHT. I apply the Testim usually about an hour later and head to work. I have a 2nd cup of coffee at work ... usually with a Whole Wheat Bagel ... nothing on it. That's around 2-3 hours after I had taken the Hops in water.

Mid-morning I've been having a mug of Spearmint Tea ... 2 bags, well steeped, in maybe 10 ounces of water. No sugar or anything added. Again this is supposed to be an additional 5a-reductace inhibitor to assist in blocking the production of DHT. At this time the Testim should be just about at full absorption.

Then nothing else until an hour or so after dinner. That's when I've shifted to Dried Hops Strobiles. Last night I used a weighed 3,500 mg of Dried Hops. I crushed them up in my fingers (a slow process but I wanted to help distribute the Hops) and eat it with Vanilla Greek Yogurt. That one is supposed to be the one that digests into 8-pn and gives a boost to phyto-estrogens.

I've also been using 1 1/2 tubes of Testim. That amount under normal circumstances (without any Herbs/Teas) would put me around 950-1000 Total Testosterone ... still within normal range.

The evening Dried Hops for sure makes me sleepy .... it's also causing lots of dreams. Kinda wierd about the erections ... they are actually increased compared to when I don't take dried Hops. That one has me stumped ... unless it's psychological (tied into the dreams) and I'm still not at an estrogen level that will prevent a physical reaction.

My calculations ... adjusting your 3,500 mg per day by weight should put me up at around 5,500 mg .... does your 3,500 mg per day prevent physical arousal?

Any suggestions? Changes? Does my analysis make sense?

Thanks .... karen

Wonder if I should lower the Testim to one Tube. That would be less Free T ... that may change the DHT/Estradiol ratio? Beats me

[Isabelle]

Hi mochaccino,

I wrote about miroestrol contents here
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=10438&pid=40536#pid40536
But I don't have data on St. Herb.

Check the link to puerariathai too: it's in Beverley's post above the one I linked above. Puerariathai charge more for spray dried PM powder. Spray dried PM is probably the raw material for the new Ainterol capsules too.

Spray drying is a process that dries faster than drying on a conveyor belt or in a kiln. Some PM literature says deoxymiroestrol is the active phyto-estrogen. Miroestrol is formed by air oxidation. I think they introduced spray drying to avoid oxidation of deoxymiroestrol to miroestrol. Oxidation, like other chemical reactions, is much faster at high temperature, so if the time at high temperature can be decreased, less oxidation products are formed.

So you need equal deoxymiroestrol levels, and the only way to get those is forum member reports on the relative strengths of different brands. You can check Ginie's and lled34aa's pages for comparisons of St. Herb with with Siriporn. St. Herb and Siriporn are comparable in strength on a 1 capsule = 1 capsule basis, but Siriporn capsules are smaller: 100 instead of 200 mg. To compare Siriporn with Ainterol (500 mg), Glittergirl and Nila and Rosance tried both.

[Isabelle]

Hi Karen,

It could be the dreams, yes. Fears or moral barriers can block storage in long term memory. So if you don't remember the dreams, they may be wild.

Coffee increases my libido too. Libido decreased for a few days after I went up from 3,000 to 3,500 mg hops, and then returned. You could try upping to 4,000 or 4,500, and stay at that dose to see if it returns. I need more hops now to suppress libido than a month ago. Hot weather increases it too.

I had erections every morning while I was using 10 g L-arginine. Not any more.

[karen]

Hi Karen,

It could be the dreams, yes. Fears or moral barriers can block storage in long term memory. So if you don't remember the dreams, they may be wild.

Coffee increases my libido too. Libido decreased for a few days after I went up from 3,000 to 3,500 mg hops, and then returned. You could try upping to 4,000 or 4,500, and stay at that dose to see if it returns. I need more hops now to suppress libido than a month ago. Hot weather increases it too.

I had erections every morning while I was using 10 g L-arginine. Not any more.

Thinking back at some past dreams I don't think I have any of those Fears or Moral Barriers

I just had 4,500 mg of Dried Hops chopped up in a little chopper and added to Vanilla Greek Yogurt ... not bad.

We shall see .... karen

[Isabelle]

Good morning Karen,

I was thinking about a comment mochaccino made at the start of this post:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=12217&pid=52695#pid52695

I don't know what it means exactly, but it's consistent with your observations. You may miss some of the effects of xanthohumol by supplementing testosterone.