[mochaccino]

It might seem strange that Im starting yet another program thread, but my new program is so different from my last program that it would be confusing not to. My last program didn't work for me at all, and I'm still not sure why. Here's the link to my previous program, for future reference: http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=10869

I'm planning to follow a barely modified version of Ginie's program: http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=7251 It say's "BO" in the thread title, but the PM leg of her program begins a few pages in. Towards the end of my own program thread, I summarized her program as well as I could manage to do.

I'll also be doing strength training and light cardio. I had started following a very extreme short term diet in preparation for my friend's wedding, but I've been scared away from it now that I'm finally starting to see some swelling for the first time in a long time. I don't want to lose the potential growth. BTW, I started out as a AAA but the increase in cup size can probably be explained by weight gain alone. I still have to buy a completely unlined bra to use for measuring, just to be absolutely sure that Im a full A. I do own a 34A VS bra that is lined but not padded and I fill it out completely, but they seem to run small, and I haven't tried on an unlined bra in years.

My Stats:
I should start by explaining a few weird discrepancies. First of all, I was somehow wrong about my own height in my last program. I was just measured on 2 seperate occasions by 2 different seamstresses while being fitted for a bridesmaid dress and they both told me that I'm actually 5'4". I also said in my last program that I thought I had increased to a 36 band, but that was wrong too. I jumped to conclusions because my 34's have gotten so painfully tight in the ribs, but since then I've tried on a few 36's and they are way to loose to wear. I've also decided that inch measurements of my bust would just be miseading because I find it really hard to take consistent measurements of that part of my body, but I will take measurements of my waist and hips, just to get a full picture of what's going on with my fat distribution, and maybe also for some exercise motivation.

27 yo
5'4"
124 lb
34A
Waist: 28"
Lower stomach, AKA "high hip"- 33.5"
Hips/butt: 40"
Thighs: 23"
No kids, no BC, no meds.

Program:
Days 3 to 13-
Ainterol PM beginning at 500mg once per day, and possibly increasing to twice per day, depending on symptoms and cycle length.
StHerb PM cream twice a day

Days 14 to 27-
500mg each FG, SP, WY
1 cup of fennel/goat's rue tea made with 1 teaspoon fennel and 1 tablespoon goat's rue.
Bio-identical PC (but only if my BBT charts or cycle length indicate that I need it)
StHerb PM cream twice a day

Once I run out of my Greenbush herbs, which will happen very soon, I'm going to switch to just using FG and GR as my herbs during luteal phase. I also plan to sleep with the noogleberry on as often as possible, but this part of my program may not work out because it hasn't in the past. It was just to uncomfortable and inconvenient. I'm just too hard-headed not to give it another go

[TibetanPrincess]

Hi,
I have read some of your prev thread here and there over time and am sorry you were disappointed with your results. Have you thought about doing comprehensive testing on your glands to see what is lagging/imbalanced?

It seems you are guessing so much and spending time looking into what worked for others and attempting nbe on their results.

I almost think it would be hella easier if you just saved up some $ and get some tests done. There is no reason why an nbe protocol can't give you more of the results you are looking for but it seems you don't know what the real culprit is. Its just a suggestion.

I wish you luck on this new one.

[mochaccino]

Thanks Tibetanprincess I don't think I'm entirely guessing, but when I think about the experience of women like you, lled34aa, or Mel, It does make me worry that there might be an important underlying reason why I didn't respond to my last program. My new program is based around BBT, which is a relatively reliable method, but it only gives a very rough picture of overall progesterone/estrogen balance. It obviously can't tell me my exact levels of these hormones, and it says nothing at all about most of my other hormones. Ive been trying to decide whether it's worthwhile for me to order a hormone test. If I do get one, I don't know if Ill spring for an extremely thorough test or a simpler one. Im also concerned that Ill need several tests over the course of a cycle in order to get meaningful results. I suppose that a single test could produce meaningful results if some of the values turn out to be very far outside the normal range, but some hormones might not reveal abnormal levels unless theyre tested across the whole cycle. I have to think about whether it's really worth my while to take these tests. I wouldn't drag my feet if it weren't for the fact that I don't have any tell tale signs of hormone imbalance.

Does anyone have any theories about what kind of hormone imbalance might keep someone from responding to Wahaika's basic program as described in my last program thread? I mentioned the possibilty of estrogen dominance, but I admit that I just pulled that explanation out of my butt because it happens to be such a common scapegoat for NBE failure (and for good reason). I have no symptoms of estrogen dominance whatsoever.

[mochaccino]

Oooops Who the heck is "Tibetanprincess"?! Sorry Tibetan113 Did I make that name up or does that username belong to someone else? I must be going crazy.

[TibetanPrincess]

Haha! No. That's meeee! You are not going nuts!

Well. I think it would help you if you did saliva panel. I have hashis/ thyroid issues and we are practically the ones who hardly respond so you should come out better than us. The cheapest I have found is here:http://zionpharmacy.com/hormone-saliva-testing/

I am using them. And happy with the professionalism of these guys.
You can at least know whats going on at the beginning of your luteal phase with estrogen/progesterone and many others

I cant wait to get my results from them. The only way I chose PC was because my saliva panel showed I was higher in estrogen than progesterone and I had also high progesterone alone. But I freakin grew finally. SO I am all for it. I would not have known to go with PC.

I would also do a blood test on thyroid, pituitary function/HGH output.

This all should guide you in the right direction.


Tibetan Princess

[Doll]

Lol Girl, your height was way off! It's ok, though. For years I thought I was 5'5". Turns out, I'm 5'4", too. ^^;

Sorry your other program didn't work out for you. Hopefully THIS will be your answer! Although as in-depth as your program was, maybe you should look into getting a hormone test done. If you don't show symptoms of estrogen dominance, it's weird that it didn't work for you.

Keep us posted, hopefully you start seeing results with this one! <3

[mochaccino]

Now that I've had time to think about it, I realize that I really have no idea how much PC cream is appropriate for someone who does not have a progesterone deficiency. Even if I take an extremely thorough hormone test, it will not tell me what dose to use . The only way that the test will tell me something relevant about PC use is if I turn out to have a progesterone deficiency, which is pretty unlikely due to my lack of symptoms.

I think I need to tread carefully and cut my PC use down to a bare minimum. I can't afford to forget that Ginie had a diagnosed progesterone deficiency. I think I will lean more towards the method that lled34aa is using, although it's worth pointing out that she also has a progesterone deficiency. I'm considering using PC to bring on menses, but only when the cycle goes beyond 31 days, which is the maximum normal length for me at this stage in my life. It usually varies between 27-31 days, but 29 is the average. If 3 days of use does not start my period, than I'll stop the PC until it does start. I'm not aware of any normal, healthy young women who have grown while taking PC for more than a few days per cycle. I don't want to use PC for more than 3 days at a time, unless my BBT chart indicates possible low progesterone. If my charts do end up making me suspicious, then I will definitely get a blood test.

[Doll]

You have to be careful with PC. From everything I've read, it usually prevents your monthly from coming, rather than bring it on (since your estrogen and progesterone levels drop weeks before your monthly in order to bring it on). Although I'm not sure how using it just once or twice so late in your cycle might affect things, or what the length of your cycle might say about your hormones. :/

My herbs prevent my monthly from happening, and so my 5-day break is the only way to make it happen (even though somehow I still get the symptoms early). Maybe if it's too late, you should just drop everything altogether and let your hormone levels fall to where they need to be...

[mochaccino]

Hi Doll Estrogen drops after ovulation and stays relatively low through the remainder of the cycle. Progesterone is high during most of the luteal phase but then drops a few days before your period. I'm not sure about progesterone cream lengthening the cycle. It makes sense that it might be able to do that if taken at the very end of the luteal phase by someone with normal hormone levels. I definitely need to look into it. It seems possible to me that PC might either lengthen or shorten the cycle in the case of progesterone deficiency, depending on what's going on with the other hormones at the same time.

Now you have me thinking that it might be best to take take it for a few days at the very beginning of the luteal phase. In that case, I wouldn't be able to use BBT charting to tell me when to take it. I would just have to take it every single month, with occasional breaks. In that case the BBT charts will be for monitoring purposes only. There's also still a chance that they'll suggest that I have a hormone imbalance, so I guess it's still worthwhile to do BBT.

If I take it for such a short time, the purpose would be to resensitize the estrogen receptors, not to grow directly from the PC itself. Actually it's not clear that this isn't also what's happening in people with PCOS, who generally have very high estrogen and androgens in combination with low progesterone. However that wouldn't apply to Ginie because she did not have PCOS, and she had low levels of progesterone and estrogen. This is all very confusing

I might ask Isabelle for her opinion on the best time to take PC.

[Doll]

Wish I could help more, but not only do I not use PC personally, but I also have no idea about the female cycle and what all these different phases are! I just remember seeing a chart where I believe estrogen dropped about halfway through, and then progesterone dropped about a week before "that time" of the month. >.<