[Mawa27]

Hi girls!
Need help, I screwed up my body.... 

This is what happened last month:
"I'm Mawa, 27 years old, writing from sicily so i hope you will be enough nice to apologize my bad english, but i'm sure you will, this place seems full of lovely people. I've been reading the forum on and off for 2 years, and now that i'm no more on BC, I would like to give a chance to PM and see if it works for me.I want to tell you my very little experience, the things i've done in this month : I'm a not full 32B, I started Biovea PM as soon as i got it, took 2 pills on day 15 of my cicle, and i was sure i had already ovulated because I always feel when it happends... Very painful ovulation... So I took 2 pills everyday till day 23 and 1 pill on days 24-27. My breast were as sore as they always are in lutheal stage , not particularly swollen, but I felt shooting pains from time to time. On day 28 got my mens so no pills till day 3. Then I got 2 pills on days 4-8 and 3 pills on days 9-11.... This time I did not feel any ovulation pain on day 14, (and i'm very punctual, my cicle lenght is 28d) and since I hadn't any ovulation stick to test if it had happened, and i didn't pay attention to the cervical mucus, I decided to wait and don't take more Pm, but started to use Ainterol pm cream instead, waiting for my ovulation to happen....Now i'm on day 23, i'm still using pm creams and since yesterday i added progesterone cream. My boobs get shooting pains from time to time but they are not tender nor swollen as they should be during lutheal and as they have always been since i'm no more on bc..... i don't know what to think... I'll be waiting for day 28 to see if i get my period, if I do, i'll take no more than 2 pills on the next follicular stage.... Maybe 3 on days 9-11 were   much for me....
Untill then is it ok to use progesterone cream?? any suggestion? in the meantime i got my ainterol r1 pm pills so next cycle i will try them... Thanks a lot.
Mawa27"

What happened is that I had my cycle on day 39 which means I ovulated on day 25... 11 Days after.

The perios was very  light but I did not pay attention to it. As soon as I started my period I took 1 pill of pm from aiterol, the new R1, and added 1x500mg maca, and did this for the whole fullicular stage. On day 12,13,14 i stopped both to trigger ovulation which did not occurr as I usually feel my ovulation...  So I took 2x500mg maca pills on days 16, 17 and 18 of my cycle and added also progesterore cream, only 1 dose.... today... Day 19 of my cycle, I have spotting! I hope it's just spotting because it's morning in Italy and I just woke up... My boobs haven't changed at all.. Nonpain, no growth... Absolutely nothing.... i screwed up myself a bit.... I took maca because of libido and because I though that it would regulate a bit my hormones since it is adaptogen..... I really need help.... Got milk thistle at home.... i must add that this month, even if i took only 1 pm pill x day, i had headhache from time to time, and breakouts over my chest... It happened also last month... Maybe i still had and have way too much pm in my body....
Thanks, mawa27

[mochaccino]

You're probably right that you took to much PM. When people ramp up PM, they usually ramp up over several cycles rather than doing the full ramp up during one cycle. In other words, most people take 1 PM pill per day during the follicular phase of the first cycle, and then 2 per day during the follicular phase of the second cycle, and so on until they reach their full dose. If they get symptoms of excess estrogen on 2 pills for example, then they usually decrease the dose back down to 1 pill. Very few women seem to need more than the maximum amount recommended by the manufacturer. It sounds like you are not one of those people who need a huge dose. You should try to match the doses of PM and PC to your own unique hormone balance.

For now, you should probably stop all PM, including cream, and use PC until your next cycle. On your next cycle you can start the ramp up again, but much more slowly and gently. Maybe start with 1 pill a day and 1 apllication of the cream. Only use PC if your cycle continues to be far too long (more than 34 days). You would take it on the cycle that follows a very long cycle. In other words, after a long cycle is over, you could take PC during the entire follicular phase of the following cycle. If you take PC every month, or if you take lots of it every time that your cycle is slightly irregular, than you will probably end up taking too much.

There is another way to take PC as well. One person on this board takes PC the moment that her cycle becomes to long and uses it for only a few days to make her menses start. In other words she uses PC to "force" her menses to begin, rather than waiting out the long cycle and then taking PC for a full two weeks during the luteal phase of the following cycle.

I hope that makes sense. It's much simpler than I make it sound If you want to keep even closer watch on how your hormones fluctuate throughout the month, you could try BBT charting (Basal Body temperature). It might give you a clearer idea about whats going on. But Im very far from being an expert on this stuff. I just started PM today! Lol. I've been researching PM programs on and off for at least a year, but only started seriously looking into PM and hormone balnce about 2 months ago. This is just a summary of stuff that Ive learned from other people. Take this with a grain of salt and research it on your own as much as you can. You should probably keep seeking advice as your symptoms change and your program moves forward.

[mochaccino]

Remember when I said to take my advice with a grain of salt?
The advice that I just gave you was mainly based on the programs of 2 people, Ginie and lled34aa. Ginie used PC following a short cycle, not a long cycle like I said, but lled34aa (who's program is ongoing) is taking PM during long cycles in order to bring on menses. Both women have been clinically diagnosed with low progesterone. I'm not sure what to think of their very different approaches, but it's worth noting that lled34aa is still in the "experimental" stages when it comes to PC use, but Ginie's program is already completed and was very successful.

What's odd is that a very long cycle is typically considered a sign of estrogen dominance, but estrogen dominance can take many forms. In Ginie's case, she was diagnosed with low levels of both estrogen and progesterone. When progesterone is low overall, rather than just being low in comparison to estrogen (meaning normal progesterone and high estrogen), then the cycle will be too short. This is called luteal phase deficiency, and it's apparently something that Ginie regularly suffered from. What's important to note is that most people who take PM do not naturally have this problem, and they end up getting exactly the opposite problem after taking PM. They usually have high estrogens due to PM, combined with normal levels of progesterone during luteal phase. Mild estrogen dominance, where the progesterone levels are normal, apparently causes the cycle to lengthen rather than shorten. In that case it probably really would be better for someone with normal, healthy hormone levels to take PC following a long cycle rather than a short one, but I'm just not sure. This is all very confusing. I guess it all depends on whether your taking PC for "normal" estrogen dominance, or luteal phase deficiency.

I really hope that I haven't just confused the hell out of you If anyone has anything to add that might clear up some of the confusion, I would love to hear it, and I bet the OP would too.

[jiberish]

It would have been a build up of phyotoestrogens that caused the menstrual cycle delay. You can see examples of this in the monkey study.

I think it will take a little while for your body to reach homoeostasis again.
You can take PM on BC too. In my opinion it improves the effectiveness of it.

[Mawa27]

Thank you very much mochaccino, for your help!
What I thought it was spotting, it's menstrual flow instead... Heavy flow.... I think I will stop for a month or untill the next 28days cycle and then start again with 1 pm x day for the follicular stage.

What about maca? Can I take it now? Will it help to normalize my hormones? i use it for libido...

i also have milk thistle at home, should I take some to cleanse my body? What do you think jiberish?
Thanx, mawa

[jiberish]

I don't know if it will normalize. But it shouldn't disrupt it. So there is no harm trying. Milk thistle will just help your liver, which may have been over worked on the high pm dosages. So yeah, it may help.

If you don't want to wait. You may be able to use some PM cream for the next month. It shouldn't have much of an effect on your cycles.