[ssag124]

Hey Isabelle,

What are your thoughts on yucca root as a phytoestrogenic herb? I was thinking about added it to my routine or replacing it with something else

[karen]

Morning Isabelle,

So this morning I was trying to find the half-life of xanthohumol.

I found this .....

http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/fw10/vitamincbeer.html

A few key points are these ....

"We have measured pharmacokinetics in a handful of people and found that xanthohumol is absorbed and may be distributed to the tissues, which seem to hold onto it for a long time. It has a long half-life in the body. Although the plasma levels are relatively low, tissue levels may be much higher. Low plasma levels don't necessarily imply a lack of biological activity."

So it seems to last a long time in your body although not in the blood stream

"It is found in any beer that is produced from hops but not in dietary plants. It's not found in beers that are made from hop extracts."

What? Not found in Plants !!! Only in Beer !!! And Not from Beer Made from Extracts !!!

"Prenylnaringenin was identified as a metabolite of isoxanthohumol, which is the isomer made from xanthohumol when you brew the beer. However, the level of prenylnaringenin in beer is very low, and it's very doubtful that the low amount in beer would be estrogenic in people. In the last couple of years, studies have shown that some people have certain micro-organisms in the gut that are able to convert isoxanthohumol into prenylnaringenin. Xanthohumol supplements in those people may be problematic, but the amount in beer is not a concern."

So again it's the "Brewing Process" that appears to create some of the chemicals ????

Even though it wasn't an EXTENSIVE Study it did seem like a credible source.

The only way that I may be able to prove anything is to come up with a regime of Hops and Testim ... nothing else ... using an amount of Testim that I already have had blood test for ... stay on that regime for say 2 weeks, and get another blood test. I just don't know if I want to have to explain anything if the results are off the charts.

I may just stop reading

karen

[Isabelle]

Hi ssag124,

Yucca contains the same amount of phyto-estrogens as hops, but eight times more phyto-progestins:
http://www.cancersupportivecare.com/estr...tml#table3

And Karen,

I think they just don't count hops as a dietary plant then. I'm pretty sure there is xanthohumol in dried hops.

You could also try an experiment with hops but without testim. I was thinking about your post from yesterday. It would be perfectly normal not to notice any phyto-estrogen effect from hops, on top of all the estrogens you get out of conversion of testosterone from testim by aromatase.

In the end, no amount of literature is going to tell you as much as good experiments on your own body.

[lemoncurd]

hi Isabelle,
you seem to be an infinite source of wisdom maybe you have a clue on this question of mine:
If hops is more for the follicular phase because of all the estrogen, can I replace hops in the luteal phase through valerian since the internet sais that it is more progesterone loaded and has these Hydrophile Lignans. (Valerian is available everywhere downtown and seems to be an easy solution.)
And here is something to chuckle about... today I´ve bought a hops plant for my backyard! I must be nuts.
ciao,
lemoncurd

[karen]

I'm pretty sure there is xanthohumol in dried hops.

Yup ... I looked around in my "saved stuff" and I found a research paper that I think you sent me a link to awhile back ... it was one where they measured the amount of xanthohumol in hops leaves and flowers and how it was affected by drought .... so FOR SURE there is xanthohumol in Hops (Fresh or dried) ... not just in brewed beer ... so much for that article.

karen

[Isabelle]

Hi lemoncurd,

In the table I linked in the post above yours, valerian was studied, but didn't make it into the top 20 of phyto-progestins. But then the last ones on that list still contain four times more phyto-progestins than hops contains phyto-estrogens, so try it. A fast way to check is to take some when you have estrogen dominance symptoms.

There are lignans in valerian, but I don't know if any of them bind to the estrogen receptor. I have been thinking of taking valerian with hops, without cycling, because hops is notorious for depression, and hops-valerian sleeping capsules aren't.

Good thing you try hops in the garden. I tried 3 years ago with shoots from a plant I particularly liked, but the longest one lasted only two months. Be sure to fertilize it well: it shoots up 6-10 m (20-30 ft) in three months.

[Isabelle]

Hi Karen,

I looked into the interview you linked, and the question was clearly about other dietary plants (than hops). So I think the guy knows what he's talking about, but the interview format is less carefully phrased than a peer reviewed paper for a journal.

[karen]

I keep reading things that confuse me. Conflicting (at least to me) reports that imply at times that Hops and Testim should not be working … and I’m not really feeling any hormone signs (No real headaches, I still have a decent sex drive, no mood swings if I stick to the same regime, decent energy ... I do dream like crazy but I tend to dream allot anyway) BUT my boobs continue to feel fuller and rounded. My nipples get hard and rubbery when they get cold. Other times they are SO SOFT ... And here are my measurements from this morning

Measured myself at 6:00 AM … my bust is normally around 50"
• Bust – 52.25”
• Band – 48.25”

So you tell me … sure seems like something is happening. I’m tending to want to continue with Hops and Testim. In the morning, when I’m ready to leave for work, I’ll do 8,000 mg Liquid Hops Extract (still not sure of potency of this) with water at the same time that I apply 1 ½ tubes of Testim. Mid-morning I will have a 2 bag mug of spearmint tea. After lunch, before the café closes I will get a small coffee for an after lunch energy boost. Then after dinner I’ll have 8,000 mg of Liquid Hops Extract with Yogurt. I can also throw in FG when I want to swell …. Let’s see … 8000 / 610 = 13 … I might try 10 FG Capsules just to see the effect. I will measure myself just before I take them, then again each hour afterwards … DON’T Forget to grab some carbs maybe an hour or so afterwards.

I have to admit, being the Kinky Little Devil that I am, I do like it better when I feel Hormonal signs

karen

[Isabelle]

Hi Karen,

When I first took hops, I bought a formula that works for many people, just took the capsules and forgot about it until it worked. At that time, the formula was three times as expensive as my current program. Right now, it's less than twice the price. It's called breast-gro, marketed by a company named Liberty Healthcare. It's an easy way to find out if you respond to hops.

I'm not sure what in hops causes the dreams, but it doesn't look like an obvious effect of estrogens. I use Pansy Mae's Law to find the right hops dose. When I take too little, I feel like cross dressing and shemale porn. When I take too much, I want to call it quits and try to be a guy again. It's really very sensitive. Because I only take hops once a day, in the evening, I sometimes feel both ways in one day, but always consistent with the timing of the hops. Yesterday, I was looking good while I was having the hops. Two hours later, I thought "yeah, right" and took it all off.

Maybe you can experiment with the dose and look for those signs. Although once you expect them, it'll be hard not to feel them, and be objective. Maybe it's better to look back into your journal.

When you do a swelling experiment with fenugreek, measure every half hour. I noticed swelling an hour after fenugreek, but it was gone half an hour later:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=49368#pid49368

[Pansy-Mae]

When you do a swelling experiment with fenugreek, measure every half hour. I noticed swelling an hour after fenugreek, but it was gone half an hour later:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=8419&pid=49368#pid49368

I still think that the FG swelling is to do with FG having some sort of vaso-dilator effect rather than an actual hormonal effect.
It's the only way I can think of that explains
a) the rapid increase and decrease in volume which you report,
b) the effect that I and others have seen of significantly enlarged 'blue veins', which also come and go quickly.
c) the effect that I have read about of apparently increased libido which is quite likely just increased blood flow to the you-know-what.