[Meiko]

Hey everyone!

So im getting a bit discouraged with my progress. First I started with herbs and gained 1 inch in a month, which was great, but im a college student and the herbs were kinda expensive so I stopped. I just did six months of PM and this was the routine:

NOTE: I have an extremely hard time gaining weight, I have been 90 lbs since highschool, (ectomorph body type) so since im having an almost impossible time doing so I feel like if I stop my routine I will loose all progress.
Not on BCP
Never been pregnant
5 foot tall
21 years of age
not taking medications
AA or A, not too sure just small.

Im getting extremely discouraged, if anyone can help me please do
Im probably about to stop PM because it keeps screwing up my period badly.


Start date: 2/26/12
Under: 27 in.
Over: 28 ½ in.
========================
Days 1-4 (period)

Morning:
(weak Phytoestrogen)
Massage with heat pad
500mg Vitamin C (1 cap)
2,000mg MSM (4 caps)
900mg saw palmetto (2 caps) only if having break outs
Breakfast
Multivitamin (1 cap)

Night:
(weak Phytoestrogen)
Massage with heat pad
500mg Vitamin C
2,000mg MSM
1,000mg L-arginine

Days 5 + 6

Morning:
250mg PM (½ cap)
Massage with heat pad
500mg Vitamin C (1 cap)
2,000mg MSM (4 caps)
900mg saw palmetto only if having break outs
Breakfast
Multivitamin (1 cap)

Night:

250mg PM (½ cap)
Massage with heat pad
500mg Vitamin C
2,000mg MSM
1,000mg L-arginine

Days 7-12

Morning:
500mg PM (1 cap)
Massage with heat pad
500mg Vitamin C (1 cap)
2,000mg MSM (4 caps)
900mg saw palmetto
Breakfast
Multivitamin (1 cap)

Night:
500mg PM
Massage with heat pad
500mg Vitamin C
2,000mg MSM
1,000mg L-arginine


Days 13 +14

Morning:
Massage with heat pad
500mg Vitamin C
2,000mg MSM
900mg saw palmetto only if having break outs
Breakfast
Multivitamin

Night:
fennel tea
Massage with heat pad
500mg Vitamin C
2,000mg MSM
1,000mg L-arginine

Days 15-17

Morning:
(Medium phytoestrogen)
Massage with heat pad
500mg Vitamin C
2,000mg MSM
900mg saw palmetto only if having break outs
Breakfast
Multivitamin

Night:
fennel tea
(medium Phytoestrogen)
Massage with heat pad
500mg Vitamin C
2,000mg MSM
1,000mg L-arginine



Days 18-24

Morning:
(Medium phytoestrogen)
Progesterone Cream
Massage with heat pad
500mg Vitamin C
2,000mg MSM
900mg saw palmetto only if having break outs
Breakfast
Multivitamin

Night:
fennel tea
(medium Phytoestrogen)
Progesterone cream
Massage with heat pad
500mg Vitamin C
2,000mg MSM
1,000mg L-arginine

Days 25 +26
(weak phytoestrogen)
Less Progesterone Cream
Massage with heat pad
500mg Vitamin C
2,000mg MSM
900mg saw palmetto only if having break outs
Breakfast
Multivitamin

Night:
fennel tea
(weak Phytoestrogen)
Less Progesterone cream
Massage with heat pad
500mg Vitamin C
2,000mg MSM
1,000mg L-arginine
(No progesterone cream on day 26)

Days 27-period
(weak phytoestrogen)
Massage with heat pad
500mg Vitamin C
2,000mg MSM
900mg saw palmetto only if having break outs
Breakfast
Multivitamin

Night:
(weak Phytoestrogen)
Massage with heat pad
500mg Vitamin C
2,000mg MSM
1,000mg L-arginine


Month 1 start: 28.5
Month 2 start: 29.75 + 1.25
Month 3 start: ---
Month 4 start: 29 -.75
Month 5 start: 29 starting new spray and cream
Month 6 start: 30

[jiberish]

My 2 cents.

Too much vitamin C, 500mg is plenty.

1 gram of l-arginine won't do anything. You need large dosages of at least 10 grams. However the science behind (l-arginine raising growth hormone) this is highly debatable.

If you are messing your period. Stop taking phytoestrogens in the latter half of your cycle.

But due to your weight and body type. Any growth will be painfully slow.

[Meiko]

Oops, meant to change that, I have since a few months ago removed vitamin C all together and depend on the vitamin C from multivitamins or from my diet. So ill have to ramp up the L-arginine to 10g per day, so 5g morning 5g night? I have recently obtained GABA and L-lysine, think i should bother with those since I have the L-arginine already or do they work better together in lesser quantity? I have gained about 5lbs since the time I began but it seems to have all went to my lower half :/

Thank you for your reply, any advice is welcome as long as its positive

[jiberish]

Gaba and arginine work in different ways to achieve the same result. So you can use both.

Gaba helps the brain relax, which helps you get to rem sleep (when the most growth hormone is released)

Some studies on arginine say 30-40 grams are required, other studies say only 10 grams is required. Many studies have it directly infused to get these results with the same results not found orally. But some studies say it is effective orally. It is really up in the air.

It all depends if it works for you and if you have the money to spend to experiment. If you have a diet rich in protein, you might be getting a good amount anyway.

How long are you massaging? I didn't believe it before, but those little 5 dollar bust rollers are useful.

[definitelymaybe]

I feel your pain. I can't gain weight either. It's very very hard for me to grow and I've been at this for over 2 years now. But if you stick with it, hopefully you will make progress. I'm on Ainterol PM now and it seems to be giving me more tingles and growth than the other brands of PM that I have tried.

I get more tingles when I take a calcium supplement with my PM. I also like to swallow a little bit of black pepper as well. It sounds weird but it helps with absorption.

Good luck!

[Meiko]

Jiberish, I tend to massage each for about 3-5 minutes three times a day. I use ainterol spray in the morning and the cream the other two times. Every once in a while ill do the fenugreek batter and leave it on all night.

Definatelymaybe, didnt know the calcium thing, ill try that next month. Im on Ainterol too, maybe a whole capsule two times a day is too much for me? maybe i should half it, too much dosnt work any faster as I have heard. black pepper huh? Ill try it too :p

Thank you guys for your support and suggestions

[jiberish]

If you using the spray/cream 3 times a day, and 2 pills. That is too much. There are limits to how much your body can process and from what I understand, if you take too much it can work against your goals.

If you are doing the spray/cream 3 times a day. You may not need any orals. Maybe cream massage twice and one pill.

[highhopes]

from what I understand, if you take too much it can work against your goals.

If you are doing the spray/cream 3 times a day. You may not need any orals. Maybe cream massage twice and one pill.

I am in total agreement. I came into this thinking the more PM i take the faster and bigger I would grow but boy was I wrong. Im discovering that too much can make the breast receptors shut down where they arent being stimulated anymore.

Since getting more results from herbs Im going that route this month and just PM as a topical.

[Meiko]

Alright, so if I take capsules ill do half in the morning and the other half at night. If spray/ cream 3 times per day then no capsules. Maybe spray/ cream 3 times per day would work better since its directly applied to the target area? Wouldn't the liver process the PM taken orally and need to have regular cleanses? I guess ill have to try PM via massages only for a cycle and see what happens.

Would the PM applied topically need to be lessened to one time per day for the second half of the cycle? Maybe that could be a contributor to the screwy periods.