[sgc42]

Hello Isabelle,

Thank you for taking the time to find this article for me. Most of the time, you are the only one who will respond to me and I appreciate you very much. Maybe I'm just an odd duck that no one else has much in common with, I don't know, but again, you are very much appreciated.
I have looked up some of both of these members posts before because I saw some similarities with myself. I even got Dr. Lee's book suggested by Mel, and it has explained a lot of my questions.
Yesterday morning I used PC and it helped but I didn't use it again last night and I woke up miserable this morning. I can only describe it as feeling like a massive hang over, without the fun of the party before. My head is pounding, my stomach is upset, I'm in a complete fog, and literally exhausted. I don't know what I was thinking yesterday when I said that I was going to resume PM today, I wouldn't touch one with a ten foot pole right now! You are right in suggesting leaving PM alone til maybe next cycle. I might use some milk thistle but I'm hesitant because I took it once during luteal and got a headache so I don't know yet.
I'm about to coin a new phrase for the "special" members like myself, this shall be known as a "rogue" cycle. There seems to be no explanation for the sudden increase in estradiol, much like a rogue wave over takes a floating vessel. And maybe I should suggest to Eve that we should have a new section for the forum dealing with perimenopause and the havoc it reeks with nbe. Maybe if we put posts dealing with these issues in one place, some patterns might emerge.
What is really puzzling me the most is when I didn't cycle PM, my cycle was never messed up, always regular, assuming I was actually ovulating. Of course, considering that it led to estrogen dominance, I probably wasn't. Another question that keeps popping up, which I posted about is what does tubal ligation do to progesterone levels? As usual, no one replied, but I did find this article:
http://www.natural-progesterone-advisory...-ligation/
I had the procedure at age 26. Then in my early thirties, I got cervical dysplasia and my doctor did something called a "freezing treatment" with liquid nitrogen and I had check ups every 3 months, then every 6 months, and finally back to yearly exams. Now, knowing that ED can cause dysplasia, and having had it soon after tubal ligation, I have to wonder.
So definitely no PM for me right now, I'm not really sure what I'll do. The PC hasn't completely kicked in yet and I'm still foggy. I guess I'll just play this out by symptoms and hope these rogue cycles are few and far between. PM is marketed as a help for menopausal symptoms, so maybe there is a way to regulate with it, but even so, I don't know if at that level it can be used for nbe. So I might explore other avenues. Maybe try one more cycle with PM since I did change this cycle with FG, and go back to PC and see if things are balanced. If not, then we'll just have to wait and see. That seems to be the story of my life these days, lol.

Sorry for rambling, don't hold it against me, remember the fog!

[sgc42]

Ahhhhhh but wait! I have another clue to share; one day last week, which would've been the beginning of my luteal, my husband and I were eating dinner and I began to feel very warm and asked if he thought the house was too hot. He said no and I got more and more hot and began to sweat. *sorry if gross* He started laughing at me and said I must be having a hot flash. It got so bad I couldn't eat and sat in front of a fan for around 15 or 20 mins, then it stopped as quickly as it started. Could this have been caused by my stopping PM and causing a quick dip in estrogen? I did start the FG the first day of luteal instead of PC. Hmmmmm, something to consider I guess....

[sgc42]

Ahhhhhh but wait! I have another clue to share; one day last week, which would've been the beginning of my luteal, my husband and I were eating dinner and I began to feel very warm and asked if he thought the house was too hot. He said no and I got more and more hot and began to sweat. *sorry if gross* He started laughing at me and said I must be having a hot flash. It got so bad I couldn't eat and sat in front of a fan for around 15 or 20 mins, then it stopped as quickly as it started. Could this have been caused by my stopping PM and causing a quick dip in estrogen? I did start the FG the first day of luteal instead of PC. Hmmmmm, something to consider I guess....

[Isabelle]

You're welcome sgc42,

The hot flush reminded me of a picture Mel posted at the bottom of this post:
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=66&pid=38265#pid38265

So if you did get into an early perimenopause because you had your tubes tied, the graph suggests the most important thing to manage is peaks and dips in estrogens. That would mean you have to keep applying PC as long as the ED symptoms last. But be prepared if they suddenly stop. They you may need to switch to PM. I know Susan managed her symptoms by the hour.

When I was a little boy, my mother told me she used the thyme she had in the garden to manage female hormone imbalances. Thyme is a strong phyto-progestin, like oregano, and turmeric. Susan used turmeric. Since you know how to use PC, it's probably safer to stick with it. But as compared to these herbs and PC, fenugreek certainly isn't strong enough. This may explain why you got into trouble in a cycle in which you used fenugreek in luteal phase.

[sgc42]

It's been a long time since I've updated and I tried a few things different. I tried a couple of months cycling pm and pc, in the way a lot of people on the forum do. I felt nothing, no sensations, and my firmness started to leave. Basically, I shrank a little. So now I've gone a couple of months using pm all month long. And I'm not on bc. If I started feeling symptoms of estro dominance, I added pc cream. I've needed only a few times at the end of luteal, which I expected. I needed very little cream, not a full dose and I seemed to be doing great. My fullness returned the first cycle I did this. Now here's the kicker, this cycle was much the same except. My period has never really stopped completely. I've been sort of spotting since day 5, which is when it should have stopped. Before I started using pm, I had this problem too so I don't think it's estro related, but I really don't know. The pm seemed to take care of this issue when I first started using it. This is the first time it's happened since I began using it last fall. And I took pm all month long then. So,

The next problem with this cycle is bad estro dominance. I'm fighting with migraines, water retention, sleeplessness, exhaustion foggy brain, memory trouble, etc. All this crap at a point in my cycle when I should be high in estro. Even before when I had severe problems with it, it was during luteal, not day 11! This was when I usually felt good! So here I am skipping pm and using pc during most of the cycle where most people here would be stopping pm. So frustrating! And if anyone still doubts the potency of pm cream (ainterol) then you can be assured that worth it's weight because I can't even use the cream without my head pounding in only minutes of applying! Then I have to use pc, which takes longer to absorb apparently. I feel like I keep taking one step forward and two steps back.

I remember when I first began using pm I felt great, better than I had in a couple of years. My hair wasn't falling out in the shower, my skin cleared up. My period only lasted five days instead of the better part of two weeks. My libido returned after a long absence. I thought it was a miracle fountain of youth. Until about the fourth month, which is what a lot of people here have said. I've tried cycling with bad results. And going back to all month seemed like it was working for me until this mess. So I'm at a complete loss. I'm afraid the pc is going to take away the progress I've made with my breasts, and even if it doesn't, the estro dominance will. I'd really appreciate any insight someone might have. I might take a month off everything to rest and ponder.

[Doll]

It's great that you were able to achieve some growth in NBE, and those pictures on the first page show a HUGE difference in size! Sorry to hear that you've been having trouble since then. I don't know much about cycling or any of that, so I know I can't help you in that aspect.

As far as the estrogen dominance, I also became estrogen dominant during my NBE, and completely cured it with maca. However, I'm not sure if it would be as helpful for someone going through perimenopause. It may be something to look into, though. I'm on a very low dose of maca (500mg), and that alone has been enough to help me. If you decide that it might help you, you might need 1,000mg a day or so, since PM is much stronger than anything I've been taking.

As far as NB, I've never tried it, but many women have said they didn't get swelling when they first began using it. Are you still using it consistently? Have you noticed any changes yet?

I wish you the best of luck, all of this NBE can be so confusing, and when hormones start to go haywire, that just makes it all worse. I hope you can get to the bottom of this and get everything in order!

[sgc42]

Thank you Doll, I'll look at maca a bit before deciding my next move. NB takes more free time than I have with a ten month old baby, I plan to keep it though for a time when I can be more consistent. Though I have no idea when that might be since I've learned that I'm going to be raising my niece as my own. I'm good with that, so a lot of stress has ceased (for now anyway). Stress wreaked havoc with my nbe last winter and I blame some of my imbalance on it. So at least that much is in check.

I'm thinking a good month off with maybe just some milk thistle, then start something again. And during my rest I might look at other avenues, BO is sounding interesting to me. Like I said, although I hadn't posted in a while I've been lurking and rearranging my supplements. I'm not ready to give up. I took my measurements this morning after my post and wanted to note it in case of any gains or losses. Right now I measure 36 in. around bust, without bra. And 30 in. under bust. I feel kinda weird, like something is up with me but I can't put my finger on it. Just a gut feeling, and I can't say if it's good or bad but I just know something is "different". It's day 11 of my cycle, lol, watch me wake up tomorrow and start my period, lol, now THAT would be a sign that something's "different"!

I'll post back more often, it helps to get some feed back. Hopefully I'll have some progress to share, have a great day!