[mochaccino]

Abidrew is right. Leary is saying that women are already superior. Leary is joking a little, but not sarcastically. I don't know all that much about him. He was apparently a feminist, although he had a lot of other radical ideas, not all of which made sense. It's actually a popular quote that people misattribute to Marilyn Monroe. Maybe if I had put her name after the quote instead of his, people would understand it more easily. I don't think the quote is all that confusing, but if people keep mentioning it, I might change it...maybe. From my point of view, it doesn't even require context to make sense. It's fairly self explanatory.

[AbiDrew85]

Haha. Wow... It is true though...

[Mellephant]

Hello Mocca,

It's a bit late as I haven't been on here in about a month as I've had an exam, but wanted to say I really respect your post about self policing on here.

Also, I'll keep you's updated on how it affects my NBE but I'm coming off the Depo shot - effectiveness expires on Oct 17th but could take a while to come out of my system (could be 2 years to be fertile!)

I don't know if I dream if D or G were able to come back to you but I'll let you know if I figure out how it's affected things.

Good luck on your programme,

Mel

[mochaccino]

Thanks Mel. I asked Ms.G and Ms.D if they had retained their growth since they were last here, and if they've taken any breaks from BC during that time, but they never responded. There's only one other person that I'm aware of who used PM, BC, and l-arginine for an extended period of time, and that's Notsobusty. She grew, but for some reason her growth just was no where near as fast as Ms.D and Ms.G.

[mochaccino]

I just realized that this past saturday was my one year anniversary of doing BE. I'm not sure I feel like celebrating I'm about to go take some pictures right now and see if there's been any visible growth from my PM regimen.

[NotSoBusty]

Thanks Mel. I asked Ms.G and Ms.D if they had retained their growth since they were last here, and if they've taken any breaks from BC during that time, but they never responded. There's only one other person that I'm aware of who used PM, BC, and l-arginine for an extended period of time, and that's Notsobusty. She grew, but for some reason her growth just was no where near as fast as Ms.D and Ms.G.

I think rate of growth is pretty subjective and relative to a lot of factors. For example, my growth has always been slow. I think it may have to do with my genetics (Family of all A's and B's). Both Ms. G and D started with significantly more breast tissue than I have, so it could be another prime example of smaller breasts taking longer to respond and the rich (in breast tissue!) getting richer. I also think (*note: not to be taken as scientific) that we all may have a natural growth rate that we cannot surpass. For example, if you grew quickly at first during puberty, then abruptly stopped growing for a number of reasons versus growing gradually and slowly over a few years. Unfortunately for me, mine has always been and always will be slow.

That could be an explanation for why they grew so rapidly and I am still here chugging along, slowly but surely!

Regardless, I think the L-arginine boom and phase has no credibility. I think it is probably more important to keep a balanced diet that is not supplemented heavily with only one product (like a boat-load of l-arginine). It may have been more of a coincidence in their cases, because both of those fine ladies had larger breasts to begin with and the l-arginine could have had zero effect for all we know. AHHH NBE is such a mystery sometimes....

[mochaccino]

One or two people have been sending me PM's lately. Probz cuz most of the real experts have dissappeared :p Anyway, it's amazing how much writing things down can clarify your thinking, and the same is true of having a sounding board in the form of another person. I noticed a while ago that most of the japanese women with extremely impressive NBE blogs were taking both PM and pig placenta, but fir some reason it didn't strike me as being especially important. Ginie used it as well and Ive said before that her program is my primary inspiration.

AbiDrew has made the case recently that animal hormones play a distinct role, different from phytoestrogens. Check out her thread for more info. I've heard that the estrogen (or was it progesterone?) in pig placenta is more similar to human hormones than other animal source hormones, but Ive never seen any actual studies to back up that claim. I have no idea how it compares to BO chemically, but pig placenta is one of the few supps that's virtually impossible to get in the US (unless your willing to buy it directly off of pig farm), so I guess it's a moot point. BO is the default choice of glandular therapy for me since there's plenty of anecdotal evidence for it, and I can buy it easily. Of course, it's possible that the pig placenta was really irrelevant to their growth. It's very hard to say.

I take my hormone test next month. Depending on the results, I will very likely add a low dose of BO to my program, but Ill probably need to change my PM dose if I do.
I might add pig placenta instead, if I can somehow get my hands on some. I dont want to go with lamb placenta because theres nit much evidence for it just yet.

[TibetanPrincess]

I was just looking into pig placenta and fish collagen on the Japanese sites! Talk about pricey.

I didn't know about the progesterone in it. I just knew of the growth factors. I am going to get deer antler since its cheaper. But yeah pig anything is biologically close to us but for some reason we use bovine ovarian

I am thinking of adding PM again to my BO but I am going to wait till I am at the 3 month mark. I am doing BIo identical est/progesterone for a couple of more cycles, so I am going to see how this works first.

I am basically titrating up on doses and slowly adding them in to find my sweet spot because for all I know, I could benefit greatly with just one thing here.
I think with BO, the increases are in small increments over time. I think I am filling on the inner tops now(cleavage) its so strange. I am hoping I can tell by a couple of more months on it.

Good luck on this next program you are devising.

[mochaccino]

Tibetan, I don't know what hormones pig placenta contains, or even BO contains. People make a lot of claims about both of them (I just did right now ), but we can't know for sure unless someone chemically tests them and publishes a list of their constituents. As for the idea that pig placenta contains hormones that are very similar to human hormones, I haven't seen any studies to back up that claim. All of the studies and other info that I'm looking for might already exist somewhere, but they might be in another language, or maybe I just haven't looked hard enough.

[mochaccino]

Anyway, I'm going to be doing some further research into bovine ovary, but if anyone manages to find a real list of it's constituents or some studies showing how it alters hormone levels, please let me know. I could be wrong, but I think Mel (aka itsjustforfun91) said that she believes that bovine ovary does not raise estrogen, only progesterone. I have no idea on what evidence she based that claim. I could be confusing her with somebody else, so I'm sorry if that's the case. That just goes to show you that there isn't a firm consensus about what bovine ovary actually does. I need a lot more info.

I also wish I knew why BO is commonly taken along with supplements that are meant to support the thyroid. Does it really affect the thyroid? If so why? Are there any actual studies backing up any of these claims?