[Helena St]

Ok so first I want to say, I really have no idea what I am doing ...that in mind here's my ideas for using herbs to change where my body is putting fat. I am learing more about fat cells and have learned that they can actually be destroyed/formed, Not just shrunk/grown....but I think that is more in extreme cases. I wonder if possibly starving my upper hips off with yohimbine/coleus and excersize could actually destroy the fat cells there? (probably not likely). then.... Typically when fat cells are gained (though overeating) they go to the hips, so not sure of the likelyhood of being able to gain more actual fat cells on the breast could work, but at least I can make the fat cells that are already there get bigger I hope. I do wonder if girls like Chiyomilk have a lot of fat cell #s in the breast and that is why they get such good growth, because the estrogens help store more fat there?

I know many girls are trying to gain on the hips for more of an hourglass figure so I will explain what I am doing. I am pretty thin overall (17.4% body fat) My lower hips are wider. 37.5 I think, but it is due to my bone structure rather than fat distribution. My upper hips are also wide structually, 35.5, but I also retain more of my fat there, giving me a more square butted apprearance. I think I would have a curvier shape if I were to be able to cut down the fat in the upper area and working the muscles to make it more round from the side. I am also hula hooping to tighten my waist.

I'll be testing it out over the next couple months (along with my regular PM program) Wish me luck and any advice is welcome!

One thing I have considered is maybe using an topical herbal estrogen blocker inhibitor on the areas I'm trying to lose on? (along with Yohimbine) Possibly nettle root or something? Anyone have ideas about this?

Wouldnt it be great if what we ate went straight to the boobage
Here's the plan:

[Doll]

I see you put a lot of work into this idea. I don't know 100% about these things, so I won't tell you that it will or won't work, because I have no way of knowing that.

I'm having trouble trying to understand what exactly you're trying to do with your hips. To me, it just sounds like you're being picky about your body (I'm guilty of that as well, I must admit).

Just to verify, you know to only use Yohimbine HCl for 3-4 days, and then take 2-3 day breaks in between to prevent it from going systematic, right? Your whole system honestly has me a little bit worried. Switching between days of losing and days of gaining may interfere with what you're ultimately trying to do. I'm not quite sure how your body will react to such turmoil in a schedule. It may end up thinking that you're going through a stressful time, and end up storing more fat. Again, I can't say anything for certain.

A few questions.
Is there a reason you are cutting carbs? I've done a lot of research, and carbs are NOT as much a cause of weight gain as people think. Quite honestly, if you eat carbs later at night closer to bed, your body will burn MORE OF IT than if you were to eat it during the middle of the day. I'm insulin resistant, so carbs make me bloat a LOT, and last night I didn't eat all day, ate a bowl full of carbs before bed at 1AM, and woke up to AN EVEN SMALLER WAIST than usual. Most carb "fact" is actually just carb myth (most of it's actually based on insulin resistance, to be honest).

Does eating at certain times of the day really have anything to do with whether or not you burn in certain areas like your arms? I can tell you from personal experience, my entire life I've almost never eaten before 1PM, and regardless, my arms still store a lot of fat (even when I was sickly thin). I have doubts that this will actually help. I think you're just getting too anxious to burn fat, and are trying to cut too quickly.

Also, PM, even as a cream, will probably become systematic to a degree. I have my own fat redistribution theory that PM may actually help give me a curvier body, putting fat on my hips and pulling it from my waist. That's a typical reaction that many transgenders face. As PM will greatly increase your estrogen levels, and as estrogen makes fat gain more typical in your arms, butt, hips and thighs, it sounds like you will need an estrogen blocker for that area to help prevent this.

Volufiline will NOT discourage fat from going anywhere else, from what I understand. Isn't it just used to basically increase the size of fat cells that are already there? I don't believe it actually puts fat in that area.

Also, from what I've read, I don't know that fat cells can actually be destroyed. You are born with a certain number of fat cells in your body, and that doesn't change. They just expand with fat gain and shrink with fat loss. This is what makes gaining back fat that you've already lost so much easier. Your fat cells retain the "memory" of a larger size, and more easily expand back to that size when you gain too much weight. I've yet to read otherwise.

Also, I want to make sure that you understand proper cutting and gaining. The best way to gain while cutting is to cut calories, increase protein and cut sugars as much as possible. Protein will help your body more easily create new cells, which is great for building new breast tissue. You can also cut fat, but I would suggest mainly cutting saturated fats without necessarily cutting regular fat. Regular fat, along with fiber, help keep you full, and are actually essential to your health.

In the end, if you try to cut too much, it won't matter that you're even using a fat burning cream. If you go into this too fast, your body will need to burn more and more fat, and even though it may take some from your cream areas, it will also begin to take it from whatever area of the body that genetics tell it to. If you go slow, it may be possible to burn fat with creams without losing anything you don't want to lose. You may not even need to cut at all if you use the cream consistently over a long period of time.

ALSO (sorry for being so long-winded), I wouldn't workout too much while cutting. You will definitely burn too much fat that way. Your body will also become stressed and you will not be able to create new muscle tissue, and you could come out looking too thin with no muscle tone (it sounds like you're going for some slight muscle tone).

[jiberish]

People always come up with new means to lose weight, get the body they want and it works for some and not for others. So I am not going to intrude. But just make one comment. Baby steps.

Your body always seeks to maintain homoeostasis. Any rapid change will be fought by your body. Your body will freak out and think something is seriously wrong and try to keep as much fat as it can. Personally I like the 5% rule. Ie

Lower calories by 5%. If after a week you lose weight. Keep the calories the same. If you don't lose weight, lower calories by 5%. Repeat until desired weight. This will also help you lose weight while eating as much as possible.


**I am not saying carbs are bad. But scientific evidence supports the theory that women respond better to a mid-high protein, moderate fats and low carb diets.

Personally I find carb cutting unnecessary, and rather control my insulin. When your insulin is raised the hormone that tells your body to burn fat from fat cells is blunted. That and I get headaches on low carbs.

But if it works for you, then do it.

[Helena St]

Thanks for the reply Doll. I know I am being so particular! I promise this isnt as extreme as it sound though. I want boobs, but I don't want the upper hips and I am afraid this might be where my growth will want to go. I'm 128lb and a deflated 34c. I wouldn't mind being like 122 with a very full 34c or better yet a D cup. When I get thinner my boobs go away, but when I get heavier they get bigger. At 145lb I think I was a full 36C or 34D. My upper hips/butt are the biggest fat magnet, saddle bag area being next (fine at the moment), back of arms, then probably breasts then stomach for me, but overall I gain pretty evenly.

I think you are right about the volufiline not directly discouraging fat from the hips during my gain days, I am just hoping that it will indirectly do this by encouraging that extra fat to go to the breast. of course maybe I will just go some weird random place like my ankles or wrists haha .

Ok I'll try and answer these and see if my reasoning is even right.

1. Cutting carbs - for me cutting carbs isnt going total atkins or anything. Just spending part of my day in fat burn/low to no carb mode. For me this is in the morning and at night. I am also trying to reduce candida. I'm using 3 lac at the moment. I do NOT do well on super low carb due to low blood sugar. I'm not sure the cause. I would guess high metabolism combined with reactive hypoglycemia. More than likely this is from eating too many carbs/sugar in the past.

So this is kind of what my meals would look like on the LOSE days. I am not exactly trying to be in major calorie deficit, just trying to make sure I am burning SOME fat and not just directly using the calories I am eating. Maintenace for me is @2300 calories a day, so lose is like 1800 calories a day. I will be eating a low/no carb breakfast so I can stay in burn mode until I eat lunch. The afternoon I will just be maintaining, and then in burn mode again through the night. I think your right, doing this slowly is the best idea.

1800 calories

6:00 wake up: apply yohimbine/light workout

8-8:30 Breakfast egg omlet with cheese.

12:30 Lunch, salad with ranch dressing, chicken breast cooked in coconut oil.

Test with ketostrip (want to show trace-small) amount

3:00 snack -I will need some carbs as I will be getting low blood sugar so I will have a 1/2 banana, almond milk, blueberry, plain yogurt protein shake

6:30 Dinner: salmon, salad, cottage cheese, vegetables

No eating before bed. I have definitely noticed that not eating before bed makes me lose weight very quickly (+ I need the HGH for boob growth) ETA- this could just be because of overal less calorie consuption though.

I have noticed that If I am on a weight loss diet after about 4 days my metabolism will slow, so the 4 day thing is good. My first day of testing with ketostrips will usually be small to medium, by 3:00, then by day 4 they are down to trace. I feel like cycling works great for me when trying to lose weight, however right now I am not necessarily trying to lose weight persay, just trying to redistribute it.

On my GAIN I won't be doing anything too extreme, like 2500-2700 calories which is not a lot for my high metabolism.

6:00 yohimbine/light workout

2 eggs with cheese, maybe ham or bacon (still want to be in fat burn mode in the a.m) as I am still working on the hips

12:00 eat a bigger lunch with more carbs in it. Maybe like a grilled ham and cheese sandwich on whole wheat bread, glass of milk, mixed nuts,

3:00 bigger snack with more carbs, larger banana protein shake or something, nuts,

5:30 some protein and carbs for dinner - like pork chop, rice or potato, 2 veggies, glass of milk.

7:00 another snack after dinner but not too close to bed. Something like an apple with natural peanut butter.

Since the PM cream and volufiline will help the fat stored go to the breasts, I am hoping the extra calories that I am eating will want to go there.

So tell me if you think this looks ok or if I still look a little crazy. I have a hard time typing out all the things in my brain in a clear and manner and sometimes I dont type what I am really trying to mean.

So right now the cycle looks like something like this: The lose and gain days are the days when I am doing the yohimbine/coleus.

4 days 1800 calories lose
4 days 2300 calories maintain,
4 days 1800 calories lose
3 days 2300 calories maintain
3 days 25-2700 calories -gain
3 days 2300 maintain
4 days 25-2700 gain

There will be some 3 days sections in there, so I can keep on the same 28 days per month. More than likely I will change my lose days to 3 and gain to 4.

This might be hard to picture so here is what it looks like on the graph I made, and maybe that will make it easier to view the whole thing. This is my ever changing NBE plan.




The other option would be to just do 4 days lose then 4 days gain with no mainenance days:

4 days 1800 calories (yohim/coleus) lose
4 days 25-2700 calories gain (NO coleus/yohim)

Maybe it would get me faster results, but be harder on my body? I was also thinking on the first cycle option that on my gain days if there was even a slight change that the yohimbine/coleus would keep the gained fat from going to my hips, that those days would still be the best days for doing gains on. I'll be doing PM cream and volufiline every day.

I definately need an estrogen blocker like you said. So nettle root is an aromatase blocker, but is it also an estrogen blocker in that it is a super weak phytoestrogen, and can occupy/block those local receptors, or is there something else I should use there that is not anti aromatse, and just a weak phytoestrogen?

Also what days should I do this on? Just the days that I am gaining? Definately dont want it to go systemic.

ETA- on my gain days I am trying to gain fat, not muscle. I definately dont want to be skinny fat though! Thanks for the info on cutting, I will look more into it, and make sure I am getting enough protein on my lose days so I dont lose muscle.

[Helena St]

People always come up with new means to lose weight, get the body they want and it works for some and not for others. So I am not going to intrude. But just make one comment. Baby steps.

Your body always seeks to maintain homoeostasis. Any rapid change will be fought by your body. Your body will freak out and think something is seriously wrong and try to keep as much fat as it can. Personally I like the 5% rule. Ie

Lower calories by 5%. If after a week you lose weight. Keep the calories the same. If you don't lose weight, lower calories by 5%. Repeat until desired weight. This will also help you lose weight while eating as much as possible.


**I am not saying carbs are bad. But scientific evidence supports the theory that women respond better to a mid-high protein, moderate fats and low carb diets.

Personally I find carb cutting unnecessary, and rather control my insulin. When your insulin is raised the hormone that tells your body to burn fat from fat cells is blunted. That and I get headaches on low carbs.

But if it works for you, then do it.

Thanks jiberish. I'm definately not a fan of any extremes, and I would die on the atkins diet lol. Im not so much trying to lose weight (not more than 5lb) just put it in a different spot. Very much agree with keeping insulin levels low. My problem in the past has been that I LOVE carbs, bread cookies etc, but I have never been overweight, just once in a while needed to lose 10 lbs or so. (right now I am thin). I think this maybe has caused insulin resistance, but I am not sure what my issue is. I tend to get the rollercoaster, probably from overeating, or too many carbs. I have been really working on this for the last couple months though Its still hard, I miss my bread lol.

[jiberish]

The bread I eat is a thinly sliced rye. It is great, not too many carbs and a lot of fibre. I know what you mean though. Just find healthier options of the things you like.

[jiberish]

Have you ever looked into carb cycling? It is very effective.

[sgc42]

Have you ever looked into carb cycling? It is very effective.

Carb cycling? I have issues with glucose levels and my cycle. I'm "borderline". Whatever, got any links on carb cycling? Might just be the one thing I'm lacking!

[Helena St]

Have you ever looked into carb cycling? It is very effective.

I just read an article on it on bodybuilding.com...That looks kind of like its actually what I am already going to be doing in this plan, but Im not being too nitpicky about counting everything though, just guestimating I will have higher carbs on gain days, medium on maintain days, and low (rather than no) on lose days. I tried to do no carbs before and felt like CRAP, no energy, blurry vision, about passed out a couple of times, didnt agree with me at all. I'm just cycling around the days that I'm doing the yohimbine/coleus.

I agree very affective, and phsychologically its great to, because I can tell myself, ok only 3 days, then you can have a bowl of bran flakes! I can tell my sugar cravings are going down a little so thats good. I'm going to try and stick with healthy carbs.

I havent tried the rye bread, but I love the Franz whole wheat thin buns. No HFCS's. They are 100 calories and I have about 15 different sandwiches that I can make with them.

I did decide to go ahead and use my tube of Eveline volufiline despite it having parabens. I figured not to let it go to waste. The Zhi Mu should be here in the next few days so I will just start adding that to my PM cream and drop the eveline stuff. I bought powder that will need to steep for a few weeks, and I also bought some granules, and I think those may be ready to use if I just dissolve them and ad them to my PM cream, I hope so anyways!

Yesterday was day 1(of yohimine) and I was able to do the yohimbine/coleus topically both in the a.m and P.m without any side affect so far, and I slept great so yay!

I will report back when I see some progress either in the gain or loss area.

[Helena St]

Here's a before pic, the mini muffin top makes it hard to find pants that fit right and makes me look too square and less curved. On a positive note, I havent fit into these pants in 8 years, since before having kids so at least something good is coming out of NBE even if it isnt boobs yet

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