[muzhiben]

While waiting on my hormone check results i've been browsing the forums.
And I found this quote:

Estrogens grow the milk ducts. They make the breasts conical, but they also contribute most to what we call "growth", because the nipples stick out from the chest on the ducts, like on poles.

Progesterone causes lobular-alveolar development, which rounds the breasts out. It determines how much milk a breast can produce and store. But roundness doesn't measure as growth with the tape.

Between ages 16 and 21, there is more estrogens, more growth, and the breasts become conical. After age 21, progesterone builds their capacity to produce milk, and rounds them out.

And I also found this inspiring mother and her experience of pregnancy:


My case is just like her, though there are mothers out there who still doesn't grow during pregnancy, she did.

I just tried on PC lately, massage on my chest with upper body exercises, and i've seen noticeable growth, so progesterone is working so far.

And I've read this doc's article here:
http://www.totalityofbeing.com/Frameless...tShape.htm

Tho he claims the PC is completely safe but i've also found warning thread from this forum so i'm using with caution as well.

At the moment i just want to know exactly how hormones levels changes through out the entire pregnancy so i have an idea of how this mother grew hers.

Any help is greatly appreciated, thank you all.

[muzhiben]

I have to say this thread also scares the hell out of me:

http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=10478

[AbiDrew85]

Yeah... That dude you linked before is over-estimating the amount and effects of the estrogenic substances in our daily lives.

PC can be helpful for many people, but it can also be harmful for many people. It is a very powerful substance with a very rich supply of progesterone.

I really don't know anything about the original question you posed in your thread.

[muzhiben]

Yeah... That dude you linked before is over-estimating the amount and effects of the estrogenic substances in our daily lives.

PC can be helpful for many people, but it can also be harmful for many people. It is a very powerful substance with a very rich supply of progesterone.

I really don't know anything about the original question you posed in your thread.

Aww drew huggies~

PC seem to work as a fat collector as he mentioned, i wonder if it's just swelling, so i've stopped to see what happens.
His wife experienced growth since she already had milk ducts in her breasts and her loss after breastfeeding was fat only, and PC gained the fat back, it does make sense.
But for those(like me) who had nothing to begin with, i wonder progesterone alone is enough, according to what Isabelle said, which sounds so true as i witnesses many women around me.
Estrogen grow the breast tissue, and progesterone collects the fats.
the PC i used is what i bought 4 years ago, the effectiveness has weakened so much so this time it didn't give me the severe throat pain as 4 years ago, feels much safer, plus the thing dried out so i distilled with lots of water as well.
A lot of saying about using hormones to grow breasts is that the growth don't stay as stop using these hormones. and plus they numb the sensors in our breasts and depress and stop our own hormone production T_T

[muzhiben]

that chart i found only shows two hormones, doesn't say anything about everything else.

[Doll]

Estrogens grow the milk ducts. They make the breasts conical, but they also contribute most to what we call "growth", because the nipples stick out from the chest on the ducts, like on poles.

Progesterone causes lobular-alveolar development, which rounds the breasts out. It determines how much milk a breast can produce and store. But roundness doesn't measure as growth with the tape.

Between ages 16 and 21, there is more estrogens, more growth, and the breasts become conical. After age 21, progesterone builds their capacity to produce milk, and rounds them out.

Isabelle really is a fountain of knowledge! Lol
From what you've quoted there, it seems like this might be part of what's caused my friend's breast shape! She's got very perky torpedo breasts, and I've been searching with no avail to try to find out what hormone levels have to do with actual breast shape. As it turns out, she IS very progesterone deficient, and she's been using PC for the past two months, and says it's already starting to round her a little. So it seems like this might actually give her the roundness she wants long-term (although I personally love her breast shape now!)

PC IS very strong, and you have to be careful when using it. But if you know you need it, and start out slow before ramping up to find your right dose, you should be ok. It's actually very vital to many programs for women who are either too low in it or too high in estrogen. I didn't realize my progesterone was also low until I started developing estrogen dominance on low-dose herbs! D: Since I've started on PC, I've found more of a balance, and all my estro dominant side effects have disappeared! Also, if you remember to cleanse every three months (like everyone should anyway), it'll help keep your system a little more clear of excess hormones.

That doctor you linked DOES know what he's talking about, just...not enough to be completely right. People are reading his page and thinking they need to STOP all estrogenic herbs and JUST use PC. While this may be true for SOME people, it isn't right for all, so, again, when your hormone results come back, then decide what kind of program will be best for you.

Also, I'm not sure about what people are telling you about NBE not lasting or damaging your body's ability to create hormones on its own. I've heard of plenty of people who've completed NBE, slowly ramped down to maintenence doses for a year or two, and have stopped with no problems at all. I don't think your body is going to stop producing these hormones once you stop NBE.

[muzhiben]

Isabelle really is a fountain of knowledge! Lol
From what you've quoted there, it seems like this might be part of what's caused my friend's breast shape! She's got very perky torpedo breasts, and I've been searching with no avail to try to find out what hormone levels have to do with actual breast shape. As it turns out, she IS very progesterone deficient, and she's been using PC for the past two months, and says it's already starting to round her a little. So it seems like this might actually give her the roundness she wants long-term (although I personally love her breast shape now!)

PC IS very strong, and you have to be careful when using it. But if you know you need it, and start out slow before ramping up to find your right dose, you should be ok. It's actually very vital to many programs for women who are either too low in it or too high in estrogen. I didn't realize my progesterone was also low until I started developing estrogen dominance on low-dose herbs! D: Since I've started on PC, I've found more of a balance, and all my estro dominant side effects have disappeared! Also, if you remember to cleanse every three months (like everyone should anyway), it'll help keep your system a little more clear of excess hormones.

That doctor you linked DOES know what he's talking about, just...not enough to be completely right. People are reading his page and thinking they need to STOP all estrogenic herbs and JUST use PC. While this may be true for SOME people, it isn't right for all, so, again, when your hormone results come back, then decide what kind of program will be best for you.

Also, I'm not sure about what people are telling you about NBE not lasting or damaging your body's ability to create hormones on its own. I've heard of plenty of people who've completed NBE, slowly ramped down to maintenence doses for a year or two, and have stopped with no problems at all. I don't think your body is going to stop producing these hormones once you stop NBE.

Thank you doll.
Yes i've found out a lot with PC and from my previous experiences on libido.
According to one of Isabelle's post, progesterone is what raises while libido comes in, from my previous years i've noticed each time i'm sexually excited my breast grow with it, not i realized it's the progesterone that's working. not only it rounds the breasts it also activate the sensors in them to respond to estrogen as well.
my growth from naturally occurred libido is tiny but the growth stayed. And now i'm trying to see if PC effect stays as well.

How do u do a cleanse?

i just talked to the doc today and she said as long as i stop PC and get my next period, my hormones will be back to normal. right now i'm high on progesterone due to the PC i used for a week, the first week of luteal phase.

i was always low on libido with bad menstrual pain, but progesterone helped on these, if that was the reason my breasts sensors haven't been responding to estrogen, then i so wish i've known this 15 years earlier.

i plan to try l arginine as well, i'm too short compare to my parents and obviously underdeveloped, maybe intake l arginine can boost HGH, which i have to be cautious as well, too much cell growth can sometimes lead to unwanted tissues(aka cancer)

about that mother's 10 month pregnancy growth, the estradiol and progesterone were both sky high i guess that was why, but not sure if i should raise my hormones to that point without a carriage.

[mochaccino]

I just want to add that I do not take that "Dr. Wong" article seriously and I groan a little inside every time it pops up again on this forum, because I think that what he wrote is very misleading and even a bit dangerous. I believe that he's probably telling the truth when he says that his wife grew very well on nothing but PC and maca. Unfortunately that led him to believe that he is the ultimate master of NBE and has designed a program that will work for virtually all women all of the time. His only real evidence that it works is his own wife's experience. This is the very definition of jumping to conclusions. Personally, I think that if his wife was able to grow on such a progesterone heavy program, she probably just had very low progesterone and normal to high estrogen levels when she started her program. He doesn't think so however. He seems to be absolutely sure that modern women are being exposed to such large amounts of powerful xenoestrogens that virtually all women will grow while using his program, even if they are not deficient in progesterone. Again, he has no real evidence of the efficacy of his program other than his own wife's experience, and that is just not anywhere enough evidence to justify coming to the bold conclusions in his article.

[mochaccino]

You should really take a look at this thread to get a clearer idea of why it's not a good idea to take more PC than you need: http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=13320

Use the PC carefully and test your progesterone levels every 3 months to make sure that your progesterone levels haven't become excessive. It would be even better to test all your hormones every 3 months, but I know how expensive that is. Dr. Lee's site sells progesterone tests for only $35 but I don't know where you live or if you'll be able to buy from that site: http://www.johnleemd.com/store/prod_stest.html

[muzhiben]

You should really take a look at this thread to get a clearer idea of why it's not a good idea to take more PC than you need: http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=13320

Use the PC carefully and test your progesterone levels every 3 months to make sure that your progesterone levels haven't become excessive. It would be even better to test all your hormones every 3 months, but I know how expensive that is. Dr. Lee's site sells progesterone tests for only $35 but I don't know where you live or if you'll be able to buy from that site: http://www.johnleemd.com/store/prod_stest.html

Thank you mochaccino!

That progesterone only test is so affordable!

I've stopped PC already listening to the doc i've talked to, she said it will be cleaned out of my system eventually after couple cycles.

Another reason i stop is to see if the growth i experienced is for real or just swelling.

And i don't agree to Dr.Wong's idea of estrogen being useless in breast growth, well his wife already have milk ducts fully grown of course she'd only need pc to build fat only. but for us who has no breast tissue or fat, we actually need both like what Isabelle explained.

Plus i bet part of my growth is linked to my breast sensor responding to estrogen as well, since pc activated them.

I remember reading one of drew's post somewhere, stating it is best to keep estrone estradiol and progesterone at high point but below tolerance level, at this point my progesterone is sky high and estrone and estradiol is only a quarter of the normal high range.

So, what are your suggestions to raise a bit more estrone and estradiol? soy maybe?