[AbiDrew85]

I remember reading one of drew's post somewhere, stating it is best to keep estrone estradiol and progesterone at high point but below tolerance level, at this point my progesterone is sky high and estrone and estradiol is only a quarter of the normal high range.

So, what are your suggestions to raise a bit more estrone and estradiol? soy maybe?

I don't recall ever saying it was "best", just that it could theoretically provide birth control type results and would also be the best possible route to birth control. NOT BE.

I honestly think that the best thing is to try to remain as faithful to your natural cycle as possible, but boost it some. Make the valleys deeper and the peaks higher. I think that the cycling of E and P are integral to female health and sexual development.

It might still be possible to grow on a "BC" plan, but I don't think it'll be near as effective or fast as an enhanced cycle plan.

Anyways... I also have said very little about either estrone or estriol, the other two primary estrogen variants. It's generally best in my opinion to leave those alone. Too much estrone can cause cancer. Too much estriol can cause excessive weight gain. If they are truly honestly low, there are estriol creams available OTC. Estrone... not sure.

Estradiol... Well, there's always USP estradiol available in a number of prescription delivery methods, and there's PM, which contains miroestrol and deoxymiroestrol, the former of which is metabolized into the latter of which internally, the latter being extremely similar to human estradiol but not exact.

I really don't know what your "best" plan is, you haven't really supplied nearly enough info to even take a gander at it. If your doctor told you to go off the PC, most likely PM-only closely following the female cycle might give you good results. Even still, I can't know your best plan, because we're all individual, and what you need to grow maybe isn't even hormonal at all but simply a diet change and some HGH/MSM/et al.

I know we all wish there was a one-size-fits-all solution to booby growth, but the real god-honest truth of it is... There is no such thing.

[mochaccino]

Soy can sometimes work, but only if you are a strong equol producer. Equol is a very strong phytoestrogen that is made from some of the weaker phytoestrogens in soy, but only in the bodies of certain people. A lot of Asians have the genetic ability to produce equol from soy, but even among equol producers there are some who produce large amounts of equol and others who produce very little. Most people of European descent can't produce equol from soy at all. If you really want to try soy for BE, I would try taking a large dose of pure soy isoflavones for 2 or 3 weeks, and if you don't feel anything at all, whether good or bad, then you're probably not a strong equol producer, and continuing with soy might be a big waste of time.

If you're just trying to raise estrogen by a large amount, than PM is the obvious choice, but BO is also a possibility.

[muzhiben]

I don't recall ever saying it was "best", just that it could theoretically provide birth control type results and would also be the best possible route to birth control. NOT BE.

I honestly think that the best thing is to try to remain as faithful to your natural cycle as possible, but boost it some. Make the valleys deeper and the peaks higher. I think that the cycling of E and P are integral to female health and sexual development.

It might still be possible to grow on a "BC" plan, but I don't think it'll be near as effective or fast as an enhanced cycle plan.

Anyways... I also have said very little about either estrone or estriol, the other two primary estrogen variants. It's generally best in my opinion to leave those alone. Too much estrone can cause cancer. Too much estriol can cause excessive weight gain. If they are truly honestly low, there are estriol creams available OTC. Estrone... not sure.

Estradiol... Well, there's always USP estradiol available in a number of prescription delivery methods, and there's PM, which contains miroestrol and deoxymiroestrol, the former of which is metabolized into the latter of which internally, the latter being extremely similar to human estradiol but not exact.

I really don't know what your "best" plan is, you haven't really supplied nearly enough info to even take a gander at it. If your doctor told you to go off the PC, most likely PM-only closely following the female cycle might give you good results. Even still, I can't know your best plan, because we're all individual, and what you need to grow maybe isn't even hormonal at all but simply a diet change and some HGH/MSM/et al.

I know we all wish there was a one-size-fits-all solution to booby growth, but the real god-honest truth of it is... There is no such thing.

My apology Drew, i remember read something somewhere but not exact.

i agree to what you said that everyone needs to learn their own body before subject to any solutions, no body knows your body better than your own self as long as you keep yourself aware. I've suffered from digestive illness that no docs's prescription helped, and it was my self who found a cure on my own. I always want to talk to all the available sources including docs, and patients (who know plenty much sometimes not even less than the docs), and then figure out my own solution that suits me.

your enhanced cycle plan sounds a lot smarter since it maintains a regular cycle rather than breaking it, if you could tell me more on how to get it done, i've noticed your goal is to achieve hormone balance as priority and that is what i desire as well.

The reason i chose to cycle low dose of pc later on, is that libido aroused progesterone did provide me growth before, and each time the tiny bit of growth stayed(i'm still flat but i was sensitive enough to notice the difference, i can't use measurements to describe since it's still too luxury for me right now, my flatness is just completely flatness)

L-arginine, may provide a boost on HGH for me, I'm 5'3", 95lbs, i never grew to my DNA designated height, all my families are tall ppl. my sis was 5'7" when she was 12, daddy 6'2". That's why later on in my life when i first met my mom she said my breasts are not the only thing that didn't grow. I'm not open to use HGH directly but a boost i think should be ok with.

Another item i added to my plan is papaya, a enzyme enriched fruit will help me absorb these nutrient i'm about to take, my digestive system is never something i can count on, so papaya will be added to all my meals. It is also a strong cleansing agent that help me getting rid of toxins build up. I'm already 28, my system have slowed down on a lot of things, maintaining my youthfulness while trying NBE is a must, a wasted body can't do anything.

My cortisol is way high right now, i've been pulling all nighters lately for months due to reading and writing, which i'll put to a stop, it's killing my skin now.

on my test it says:
estrone 4.3, normal range <16 pg/ml
estradiol 1.1, normal range 0.2-5.2 pg/ml
estriol 0.3, normal range <32.0 pg/ml

My progesterone is too high now, so i will be washing my blood through drinking a lot of water in the morning followed by hot bath therapy daily, which is able to circulate the liquid in my body and dump out the waste afterward, for the cortisol as well.

I'm not familiar with MSM, what does that do?

[muzhiben]

Soy can sometimes work, but only if you are a strong equol producer. Equol is a very strong phytoestrogen that is made from some of the weaker phytoestrogens in soy, but only in the bodies of certain people. A lot of Asians have the genetic ability to produce equol from soy, but even among equol producers there are some who produce large amounts of equol and others who produce very little. Most people of European descent can't produce equol from soy at all. If you really want to try soy for BE, I would try taking a large dose of pure soy isoflavones for 2 or 3 weeks, and if you don't feel anything at all, whether good or bad, then you're probably not a strong equol producer, and continuing with soy might be a big waste of time.

If you're just trying to raise estrogen by a large amount, than PM is the obvious choice, but BO is also a possibility.

BC, BO, or PM, i don't have a doc so can't get bc, the PM that japanese lady was using seem pretty effective, on her.

Ya i've eaten soy before but no difference noticed, now i finally see why thanks. i can't use pc at the moment, and before i go on with these hormone enhancement i've better learn more about how to manage my cycle, wouldn't want to break it or stop it.

Another thing i use sometimes is muscle stimulator, i can't use pumps or NB since it will most definitely hurt me, i get hurt very easy and my scar tissue is not friendly either, if my HGH and progesterone r both high while scar tissue is forming that can be really bad going for me.

but seems i'm the only one who use this method, does provide a good massage and increase blood flow on my chest.

[AbiDrew85]

The reason i chose to cycle low dose of pc later on, is that libido aroused progesterone did provide me growth before, and each time the tiny bit of growth stayed(i'm still flat but i was sensitive enough to notice the difference, i can't use measurements to describe since it's still too luxury for me right now, my flatness is just completely flatness)
My cortisol is way high right now, i've been pulling all nighters lately for months due to reading and writing, which i'll put to a stop, it's killing my skin now.

on my test it says:
estrone 4.3, normal range <16 pg/ml
estradiol 1.1, normal range 1.2-5.2 pg/ml
estriol 0.3, normal range <32.0 pg/ml

My progesterone is too high now, so i will be washing my blood through drinking a lot of water in the morning followed by hot bath therapy daily, which is able to circulate the liquid in my body and dump out the waste afterward, for the cortisol as well.

I'm not familiar with MSM, what does that do?

It sounds like you're one of those "low on everything" people. IMO, try to be patient and wait until your cortisol and progesterone normalize again, and then get multiple tests done in a cycle. Try to aim for a test around days 1 or 2, around day 14, and around day 20.

If it indeed turns out that you're "low on everything" you might even be able to get prescribed real hormones from your doctor. IMO, INSIST on USP progesterone, and try to talk them into regulated use of PC. Progestins are nasty sons of bastiches that do far more harm than good. And if your doctor doesn't think so, they're either an idiot, or lying through their teeth.

If you can't get prescriptions, your options then are to attempt to self-regulate your doses with PM and PC (and if you want to try something risky, illicitly obtained estradiol valerate.)

MSM is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylsulfonylmethane

I'm not entirely clear on what the claims are for it for BE, but it is clear that if you have a sulfur deficiency, it will help that, at least. Which might help lots of strangely interconnected processes in your body which could eventually link to booby growth in some strange way.

There's a lot of strange things like that... Multi-vitamins and multi-minerals and especially iron can also be important considerations. Both too much or too little of various vitamins and minerals and enzymes and oh my can have a considerable impact on a number of bodily processes, breast development definitely being among them.

From a diet standpoint. Try to avoid starchy or high carb foods, and especially starchy high carb foods, try to aim for protein-rich food, etc. I believe someone's already talked about this.

As for the female cycle. I recently posted to my own thread about just this... http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=12888&pid=61162#pid61162

Please note that as a bio male I am naturally even lower on everything than you are, so my PC doses would probably be crazy extreme on you, and you probably don't need any or at least nearly as much estradiol as me. My chart is FOR MY NEEDS ONLY. Though if I know your hormone levels at the points I told you about earlier, I might be able to figure out decent dosing for you.

[muzhiben]

It sounds like you're one of those "low on everything" people. IMO, try to be patient and wait until your cortisol and progesterone normalize again, and then get multiple tests done in a cycle. Try to aim for a test around days 1 or 2, around day 14, and around day 20.

If it indeed turns out that you're "low on everything" you might even be able to get prescribed real hormones from your doctor. IMO, INSIST on USP progesterone, and try to talk them into regulated use of PC. Progestins are nasty sons of bastiches that do far more harm than good. And if your doctor doesn't think so, they're either an idiot, or lying through their teeth.

If you can't get prescriptions, your options then are to attempt to self-regulate your doses with PM and PC (and if you want to try something risky, illicitly obtained estradiol valerate.)

MSM is this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylsulfonylmethane

I'm not entirely clear on what the claims are for it for BE, but it is clear that if you have a sulfur deficiency, it will help that, at least. Which might help lots of strangely interconnected processes in your body which could eventually link to booby growth in some strange way.

There's a lot of strange things like that... Multi-vitamins and multi-minerals and especially iron can also be important considerations. Both too much or too little of various vitamins and minerals and enzymes and oh my can have a considerable impact on a number of bodily processes, breast development definitely being among them.

From a diet standpoint. Try to avoid starchy or high carb foods, and especially starchy high carb foods, try to aim for protein-rich food, etc. I believe someone's already talked about this.

As for the female cycle. I recently posted to my own thread about just this... http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=12888&pid=61162#pid61162

Please note that as a bio male I am naturally even lower on everything than you are, so my PC doses would probably be crazy extreme on you, and you probably don't need any or at least nearly as much estradiol as me. My chart is FOR MY NEEDS ONLY. Though if I know your hormone levels at the points I told you about earlier, I might be able to figure out decent dosing for you.

Made a typo mistake, should be like these:
estrone 4.3, normal range <16 pg/ml
estradiol 1.1, normal range 0.2-5.2 pg/ml
estriol 0.3, normal range <32.0 pg/ml
testosterone 4.6, normal range 4-33 pg/ml
DHEA 0.18, normal range 0.10-1.30 pg/ml
Melatonin 17.6, normal range 0.1-25.0 pg/ml

Below are high floods due to PC over dose
Progesterone 510, normal range 80-270 pg/ml
17-OH progesterone 89.2, normal range 15.4-60.5 pg/ml
Cortisol 9.75, normal range 1.8-3.8 pg/ml
Androstenedione 168, normal range 6-69 pg/ml

So even tho everything is low, it's all within normal range. I've talked to the doc who i called today from zion, and she told me they are not low, and as long as the progesterone and cortisol drop down i'll be fine.

or maybe she said that just to aim for a good ratio balance rather than the enough amount i need for breast growth. The thing is i don't know if docs will allow me to take hormones since the test shows normal range results.

i noticed MSM as well as i read through b00biel0ve's program, but her supplement is a still a myth to me, i don't know what's in her pills, but from her round shape i'm guessing WY if naturally made.

Through reading on these forums i've noticed on how specific and detailed you are on hormones, i would rather stay with PM and PC like you, and monitor them as i go. I know your plan was made to suit you and loads of stuff you have listed i have no idea what they do, i wish to learn rather than copy.

That cycle post was so wonderful i screenshot it thank you. when i try to boost my cycle, PC and PM is what i use right? if i get to grow, then i might want to stay away from estrogen for now, my grandmother died of breast cancer.

i guess dosage can be suggested accordingly but can only be finally decided through a lot of trying, since we don't share the same weight height metabolism and such. a lot of testing will be needed and yikes i need to save for that cost

[AbiDrew85]

Ehhhh.... When in your cycle did you get this test taken exactly? Your hormone levels are very different throughout your cycle, which is why female hormones are ranged so much more widely than male hormones.

If this test was taken during a valley period, then you're probably not low. If it was taken during a peak period, you're probably low.

I obviously cannot speak on balance at this time since you messed that up with incorrect PC use.

I know it's expensive, but at least two more tests about a month or two from now would be VERY helpful. Once your hormones normalize, a test on day 1 or 2, and another on day 14, and MAYBE a third on day 20. This would give us a good idea of what your own personal range is during a given cycle and let us know if you need any cycle boosting.

[muzhiben]

Ehhhh.... When in your cycle did you get this test taken exactly? Your hormone levels are very different throughout your cycle, which is why female hormones are ranged so much more widely than male hormones.

If this test was taken during a valley period, then you're probably not low. If it was taken during a peak period, you're probably low.

I obviously cannot speak on balance at this time since you messed that up with incorrect PC use.

I know it's expensive, but at least two more tests about a month or two from now would be VERY helpful. Once your hormones normalize, a test on day 1 or 2, and another on day 14, and MAYBE a third on day 20. This would give us a good idea of what your own personal range is during a given cycle and let us know if you need any cycle boosting.

true, i did it on the 21st according to the guide, and then when i checked my period tracker, my average cycle is 36 days, i'm irregular btw. So it was taken about 2 days before ovulation, it was a low point, guess i'm not low. i'll do the single test for progesterone where mochaccino suggested till it drop to normal, $35 is pretty affordable. then i'll take another test during my high point, it's easy to tell with period tracker, and my flatties will get tender. now i just need to be patient…

waiting for my l-arginine now, hoping it helps with wound healing and cell reproduction, i seriously need skin repair.

[muzhiben]

besides estrogen and progesterone.
there are other hormones needed for breast growth, HGH, prolactin, adrenaline, Insulin, thyroxin, FSH, LH, Adrenocortical hormone.
Drew, should i boost all of those? or how do i check if i'm lacking them?

[mochaccino]

You can't really tell when you ovulated without doing BBT or an ovulation test, unless you're one of those women who can actually feel it happening. Most women who have a long cycle tend to have a normal length follicular phase, but I'm sure it varies from person to person, and maybe even within one individual if they're actively messing with their hormones.