[aoz]

Aoz, you are being unreasonable, and the bad language is quite unnecessary.

First, get the facts straight. One has the freedom to destroy their body, but they do not have the right to destroy their body. Does this confuse you? I'm not suprised. You are obviously already confused, in fact, you're mentally ill at best.

How do you know what the qualifications are of anyone here? You don't. And, by the way, one does not need to be an astronomer to declare that the sun rises in the East. Or, is common sense beyond your comprehension?

Your attitude smacks of someone who is defeated. You have obviously given up. It shows in your posts in this thread. Are you of the opinion that you have gone so far down your road that there is no way to reverse your situation? Would you reverse your situation if you could?

Here's a large word for you lexicon: duty. It is our duty to warn those who come here under age of the danger that they are in. Or are you against them having the knowledge of where their actions could lead? Why would you withhold information from them? Don't you think that people should be informed? Without the right information they would surely make the wrong decision. Is that what you want, for them to end up like you?

And yes, unless you have had male parts surgically removed and female parts put in their place (you would still be a male, but with female parts) your situation is quite reversible if you wanted to pursue it.

Wahaika

wahika, you're an idiot.

what specifically have I said that shows that I have "given up?" I'm a transgender individual with a goddamn C bordering on D cup. I lived homeless and now I have a ten acre farm to tend to. I haven't given up, I've achieved. I'm winning. I have no debt and have made it this far in transition though serious research and application. I probably have a better grasp of hormones than at least 90% of people here. I am not here for "help" on breast enhancement so much as I am here to spread information about the body and endocrine system. Look at the posts I have made since I got on here. There aren't many, but almost all include information found nowhere else on here. I'm here to help people. Apparently you are not in that business, instead you want to tell people that they are too young to have an interest in breast enhancement. That's not your right. One would do well to give clear warnings to younger people (and to the older ones as well, there are some real bimbos on the internet) but to say that they aren't worthy of taking their lives into their own hands because they aren't old enough is stupid. you think you're so much more superior because you are legally an adult, when I guarantee there are smarter kids than you in nearly every high school class. Get off your high horse. you're not superior, though you only have a superiority complex and are now waving it around the internet becuase it makes you feel important

you think you've done more research than me? it's possible, but not very likely. but there's no way to prove either way, it will merely show in postings who better knows what they are talking about.

I'm here as someone who's already achieved the body changes I want, and I joined quite a while after achieving these things. This place doesn't have a lot to offer me, though I have information that could help people on here. But now I am seriously considering leaving the forums because of dopes like you. There are other places where I can help people without idiots throwing accusations and being condescending. it will be this site's loss, not mine.

I'll probably stick around just to see what your response is, becuase it's kind of comical at this point, but people like you really ruin forums like this and there's no point for me to hang around and tolerate you playing jr. psychologist/endocrinologist

and how is it not somebody's right to screw up their body. it's theirs.

if you have a fifty thousand dollar car and want to smash it with a sledgehammer, it's not smart to do, but it's your right, because it's your damn car, not somebody else's.

and obviously, you aren't an astronomer, and definitely not some sort of brilliant endocrinologist. simple answer, the sun doesn't rise in the east. the sun doesnt rise at all, because it is stationed in the center of the solar system, and it's the rotation of the earth that causes the illusion of the sun rising

you are basing your decisions based on illusions, making incorrect assumptions because "they must be right, because everyone else seems to think so"

[aoz]

so it's nothing to trifle with, but you trifle with it anyway.....makes sense to me

I don't know where you come off saying this. Have you read anything I've posted? Anything tibetan has posted? Anything mocha has posted? Anything Wahaika has posted? Anything Doll has posted? We all do crazy brick tons of research. We spend more hours studying just what we're doing to ourselves with these supplements than we probably do in any of our other ACTUAL hobbies. Wahaika I think is just someone who is supportive, but tibetan, mocha, and I? We're in this for serious, and we all have legitimate reasons for it. Me, I'm legitimately a transsexual. I can't afford to transition through medical aid. I'm not after just "make my tits bigger" I'm after as thorough a body transformation as I can possibly get. Tibetan and mocha are both older than 25, and both are massively underdeveloped. They too are more in this for balancing their bodies in general, overall sexual wellness, and yes, bigger busts are a big part of that. Doll has PCOS. Do you have any idea what that is? How many doctors out there completely disregard it despite it's major implications on the sufferers sexual health? How expensive that can be to control using the medical communities "standard" channels because the majority of insurances consider it a "cosmetic" treatment? No? Then back the hell off.

I'm sorry if it upsets you, but as Wahaika above me has stated, there's a difference between freedoms and rights, and, under the age of 18, minors do not yet have the RIGHTS to control over their own bodies. They can not legally assign those rights away and agree to a disclaimer. The rights lie with their parents. Who, if something bad happens, can come after Eve, and come after the members of this forum.

Even if that were not true. Young girls should very very rarely if ever need to resort to hormone manipulation of this sort. If they have an imbalance, they are at an age where they can usually correct it with much much gentler nudges. If not, they are covered under insurance. If nothing else women with children and their children are ALWAYS covered under state medical care. If they bother to seek it.

Young boys simply have no business being here unless their parents know they are here and consent and they are being monitored by AT LEAST a mental health professional. They do not yet have the RIGHT to transition. This isn't about whether it's what's right or wrong for them, this isn't about who they are or what's best for their body or ANYTHING. This is about legal responsibility. Young boys are not LEGALLY allowed to be here. Period.

I've done assloads of research too. PCOS is called polycystic ovarian syndrome and is a condition in which there are cysts (almost always benign growths) on the ovaries. this is very often paired with growths in the breasts, and these fibroids are fed by estrogen.

I DO know what I am talking about despite your assumption that I am uneducated

if you think that childeren have no rights because legally until they are eighteen they are slaves to their parents. Just because legal rights don't align with natural rights doesn't mean they don't have natural rights, it just means that an atrocity is being performed by robbing them of their basic human rights

[AbiDrew85]

I've done assloads of research too. PCOS is called polycystic ovarian syndrome and is a condition in which there are cysts (almost always benign growths) on the ovaries. this is very often paired with growths in the breasts, and these fibroids are fed by estrogen.

I DO know what I am talking about despite your assumption that I am uneducated

if you think that childeren have no rights because legally until they are eighteen they are slaves to their parents. Just because legal rights don't align with natural rights doesn't mean they don't have natural rights, it just means that an atrocity is being performed by robbing them of their basic human rights

I never assumed you didn't know what you were talking about with the hormones themselves. I assumed you didn't know what you were talking about with legal and social ramifications. There's a difference. But yes, I did think that you maybe didn't know about PCOS, it wouldn't make you "ignorant", very few people know a whole lot about it.

As for the difference between basic human rights and legal rights... moot argument. The legal rights trump the human rights, regardless how we may personally feel about that.

You're a very very angry person. I do not understand why you are so angry. I'm still in the middle of the early stages of my transition, and have, from the sounds of things, far more right to be angry than you about life at the moment. But do I sound angry?

Personally, I can understand age of majority laws. While there are youngsters who are extremely smart, there are also youngsters who have absolutely no idea what they are doing and are too damned obstinate to follow reasonable advice.

The same is true of adults, of course, but there has to be a cut-off made where someone becomes responsible for their own stupidity. Most governments have made that 18. Which is reasonable. By then, most people have had enough life lessons to learn to be more patient and "street-smart", whereas below that approximate age, most people have not. Hell. Sometimes I think the age of majority should be 25. But then, some of the mistakes made between 18 and 25 can only BE made by those that are going to insist on making them once they are adults.

[aoz]

I've done assloads of research too. PCOS is called polycystic ovarian syndrome and is a condition in which there are cysts (almost always benign growths) on the ovaries. this is very often paired with growths in the breasts, and these fibroids are fed by estrogen.

I DO know what I am talking about despite your assumption that I am uneducated

if you think that childeren have no rights because legally until they are eighteen they are slaves to their parents. Just because legal rights don't align with natural rights doesn't mean they don't have natural rights, it just means that an atrocity is being performed by robbing them of their basic human rights

I never assumed you didn't know what you were talking about with the hormones themselves. I assumed you didn't know what you were talking about with legal and social ramifications. There's a difference. But yes, I did think that you maybe didn't know about PCOS, it wouldn't make you "ignorant", very few people know a whole lot about it.

As for the difference between basic human rights and legal rights... moot argument. The legal rights trump the human rights, regardless how we may personally feel about that.

You're a very very angry person. I do not understand why you are so angry. I'm still in the middle of the early stages of my transition, and have, from the sounds of things, far more right to be angry than you about life at the moment. But do I sound angry?

Personally, I can understand age of majority laws. While there are youngsters who are extremely smart, there are also youngsters who have absolutely no idea what they are doing and are too damned obstinate to follow reasonable advice.

The same is true of adults, of course, but there has to be a cut-off made where someone becomes responsible for their own stupidity. Most governments have made that 18. Which is reasonable. By then, most people have had enough life lessons to learn to be more patient and "street-smart", whereas below that approximate age, most people have not. Hell. Sometimes I think the age of majority should be 25. But then, some of the mistakes made between 18 and 25 can only BE made by those that are going to insist on making them once they are adults.

I'm not an overly angry person, I'm a crude and passionate one. I speak my mind and will let people like you know when they are being unreasonable. I can't respect someone that puts corrupt politics before natural human rights. I'm sorry for you that your priorities are so jacked up.

And you think you have more to be upset about in life than me, yet you have no idea what I've been through. I've earned everything I have. If you want to be angry because you're jealous because you don't have what I have so be it, but I don't think it's a good idea. Maybe instead of feeling sorry for yourself you should work hard to achieve what you don't have. Earn it. Make progress, not excuses

[Amber1017]

In some cases, kids' natural rights are not honored. In other cases they are. The same as with adults.  Our natural rights aren't always honored. It is to keep things stable, in a way.

Kids (in the US) have a right to education, to  not be beaten and abused, etc. But those rights are limited, by adults trying to protect, and bring them up. Despite what natural rights they have, adults have dominance over them legally up until a certain age. If adults abuse that power, or fall short, they are to blame, and are punished. As kids have rights, adults have rights too. The right to (possibly) set age limits in order to better protect themself from liability. 

Just as other members here said it would fall on them and Eve... if I had students or knew of students who were doing some of the stuff on here, it would fall on me to report it to parents and the Principal, and Counselor. Otherwise I would be held responsible, as the adult, if they found out I knew about it. I would lose my certification and job real quick.

The way the system sees it, the students belong to their parents and really have no natural right to choice over their bodies. (Which is also a reason why students having a sexual relationship with a teacher is wrong, even though sex is natural. This stuff should and has to be reported. They don't have a right to choose that, and responsibility and punishment fall on the adult. I'm not going too far into that though.) 

I have to respect legal over natural most times otherwise I won't be employed very long.

In a way, they are slaves totheir parents. (but not in a horrible way like the 1800's) There are truly gifted students out there, but it falls back to the parents. That's the way it is set up. Their parents are responsible for them, so some of their rights are limited. They don't come to school, the parents, who they belong to, get court marshalled, etc. 

In some ways, you have to abide by, the fact that kids aren't and can't just free to do what they want, when they want, and how, because if they are allowed to do so, when it hits the fan, it will impose on someone else's rights... the adults society thinks is responsible for the "kids'" wayward thinking and/or actions. They will also be held responsible for not stopping them.  

If ya let them do what they want because it is their natural right, there goes your natural right to freedom... when you get locked up, or lose your job over something a kid did. 

Protecting yourself from this kind of stuff is a given, imo, with all the lawsuits around. It too is a right.

[aoz]

thats what a disclaimer is for.

[AbiDrew85]

I'm not an overly angry person, I'm a crude and passionate one. I speak my mind and will let people like you know when they are being unreasonable. I can't respect someone that puts corrupt politics before natural human rights. I'm sorry for you that your priorities are so jacked up.

And you think you have more to be upset about in life than me, yet you have no idea what I've been through. I've earned everything I have. If you want to be angry because you're jealous because you don't have what I have so be it, but I don't think it's a good idea. Maybe instead of feeling sorry for yourself you should work hard to achieve what you don't have. Earn it. Make progress, not excuses

You do a mighty fine job of coming across overly angry if you are not.

I can't not "put corrupt politics before natural human rights" if I want to maintain MY natural human rights. All rights are only insofar as they do not impinge on another's rights. These kids still have all the rights to trying to search out the knowledge and information that I have, but they do not have the right to assistance from me. If I provide that assistance I then become liable for their actions, and if something bad happens from that, I can get sued or even tried for things like criminal negligence.

If maintaining my own freedoms is "jacked up priorities" then I sure do wonder what having them straight would be.

As for me. There are days that I spend feeling miserable over my lot in life and not much wanting to face what passes for a life at the present time... But for the most part I am working hard at facing what I have to face and pressing on to reach that dream goal of someday being just a "woman" and not a "trannie". I am also working hard at trying to learn social graces I never had the opportunity to learn while I was trapped in my own head. I am also working hard on furthering a career in cosmetology.

I'm hardly just sitting around feeling miserable and making excuses. What I am doing is trying to maintain my rights as much as I can and perhaps earn a few new ones I've never had. Natural rights notwithstanding, there are lots of legal rights that I -SHOULD- have, and everyone else, including the homosexuals now -DO- have, but which I do not.

But rather than just deny the system, it is better to try to work within the system to improve it. If you just straight up rebel against it, where is your cause if you just wind up in jail with no rights at all?

[Amber1017]

thats what a disclaimer is for.

Added protection can't hurt. From the looks of it, it will make some feel more comfortable and safer.

[aoz]

I'm not an overly angry person, I'm a crude and passionate one. I speak my mind and will let people like you know when they are being unreasonable. I can't respect someone that puts corrupt politics before natural human rights. I'm sorry for you that your priorities are so jacked up.

And you think you have more to be upset about in life than me, yet you have no idea what I've been through. I've earned everything I have. If you want to be angry because you're jealous because you don't have what I have so be it, but I don't think it's a good idea. Maybe instead of feeling sorry for yourself you should work hard to achieve what you don't have. Earn it. Make progress, not excuses

If I provide that assistance I then become liable for their actions, and if something bad happens from that, I can get sued or even tried for things like criminal negligence.

by sharing information, you aren't assisting them with changing their bodies, you are educating them. If they learn something and want to apply it, you aren't responsible if you didn't help them do it.

if you inform somebody about heroin and they end up addicted, you didn't stick the needle in their arm, they did. it's not your responsibility, period. If I were to teach someone how to handle a firearm and they shot up their school, the responsibility is on them for their decisions and not on me for being an educator

and if you expect to fix a corrupt system from the inside, you're just diluting yourself. you can't expect to get rights by following laws and whining, you do it by rebelling against the system. Some rebels get jailed, sure, but catching comes before hanging.
\
I do what I want, regardless of laws, and make sure I cover my ass. And you know what, I have a great life. I have been to jail before, and yes it sucked, but it's a small price to pay for everything I've gotten away with. Trust me, amerika won't change because of a bunch of whiny brats complaining that the man has a boot on their neck, it will come in a violent revolution. The corruption of the modern age can only be washed away with the blood of the unjust.

you can live your life in fear and try to pretend you are causing some good in the world, but if you really want to make change, lie low and wait for the rallying call, then grab a gun and follow the mob

[TibetanPrincess]

"by sharing information, you aren't assisting them with changing their bodies, you are educating them. If they learn something and want to apply it, you aren't responsible if you didn't help them do it."

Educating them?? Uh, no... Who here is a Dr. of endocrinology?? Anyone here? How about a Dr. of biology? You can't just educate someone.
It becomes a liability because WE are NOT doctors in this field. We can't just share info and anyone says: "Okay, I believe you because you did the research and know what the hell you are talking about."
Not so smart on anyone's part.

"if you inform somebody about heroin and they end up addicted, you didn't stick the needle in their arm, they did. it's not your responsibility, period. If I were to teach someone how to handle a firearm and they shot up their school, the responsibility is on them for their decisions and not on me for being an educator"

You are a complete moron. Sorry, but you have completely missed the point we are making and there are many, btw. If you haven't caught on up to now, I am not going to bother to repost in a nutshell on what we are all trying to say here. It's okay, you have an immature mentality.

"and if you expect to fix a corrupt system from the inside, you're just diluting yourself. you can't expect to get rights by following laws and whining, you do it by rebelling against the system. Some rebels get jailed, sure, but catching comes before hanging."

WTF??

I do what I want, regardless of laws, and make sure I cover my ass. And you know what, I have a great life. I have been to jail before, and yes it sucked, but it's a small price to pay for everything I've gotten away with. Trust me, amerika won't change because of a bunch of whiny brats complaining that the man has a boot on their neck, it will come in a violent revolution. The corruption of the modern age can only be washed away with the blood of the unjust.

Again, WTF?? You've taken it far off of left field. It was unnecessary.

you can live your life in fear and try to pretend you are causing some good in the world, but if you really want to make change, lie low and wait for the rallying call, then grab a gun and follow the mob
[/quote]

Obviously you are from the country side,

Bottom line, you may know some shit, but you are NOT a Doctor. Most of us here aren't. And the research we have all done is from cyberspace sources for the most part and guess what? It's all questionable to a high degree. You got it?? Because anyone can write freakin article and call it research!

What worked for you ain't gonna work for someone else. So I wouldn't go around on forums sharing your "Ph.D. pearls of scientific knowledge." You are merely playing "Street Doctor."