[timarie]

I decided to start this thread because it became a conversation of its own on Doll's Program Thread (see pages 14-15 http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=13300&page=14). So, without continuing to derail her thread, we can discuss this topic more in detail (if need be) here!

This was the last post to which I wanted to make a comment:

that what I was thinking about... I'm trying to build legs muscles and this diet will destroy everything,,, any other cleansing program plz ?

I would try maybe a 3 day juice cleanse or something while taking a milk thistle and/or dandelion supplement. Or if you want something longer maybe do a week of mostly raw food, salads, juices and maybe healthy meat proteins 2-3 days out of 7 for example. Greens are filled with nutrients you wouldn't believe. And you can still obtain many of the nutrients you took for NBE in the form of live foods...fruits and veggies. So you aren't really aren't moving too far away from your routine.

Thank you for your detailed information on the cleanse, Statuesque. It, again, will be helpful for those who want to lose fat and do not mind losing muscle along with it… but for those to which you were replying who are prioritizing maintaining and/or building muscle mass, this is not ideal.

You are talking about nutrients here (which is great), but not protein, and for a person to--at the very least--JUST MAINTAIN their muscle mass, they need to consume a proper amount of protein DAILY, so the above suggested cleanse will still not work for a person who is prioritizing maintaining or building muscle mass. Also, I do not want people who are interested in learning about how to build muscle to be misled by this statement “And to keep my butt at my current size I did squats 4-5 times a week.” If you want to burn OFF your muscle (coupling this routine with a caloric deficiency), or when consuming enough protein want to constantly break down your muscle so that you never give it the opportunity to grow and build off of the protein, this is the way to do it. In other words: LADIES, if you want to build muscle, you should be working out a particular muscle area no more than twice a week with very heavy weights and reps within your sets numbering no more than 12 coupled with a diet high in protein and calories, and if you want to lose fat and maintain muscle, you will need to decrease your weight training volume and/or frequency (which is the amount of exercises you do in a workout and how often you workout that muscle group per week—so we are talking about 1 day a week, here… not 4-5!) coupled with a diet of a caloric deficiency with enough protein.

This article may be helpful for those who want to know more:
http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/how-to-lo...ng-muscle/

For those who have not seen Doll's thread, I suggested for those who want to continue to consume adequate amounts of protein every day to go on The Cleaner http://www.thecleaner.com/. It does not claim to make you lose fat but that is not what cleansing is about, anyway. That is just an extra "perk" that results of cleanses that require you to go into a caloric deficiency, which duh of course is going to make you lose both fat AND muscle! So, it all depends on what your priorities are here. You do not always have to lose muscle when you lose fat (as you can read in the link I posted above), and to summarize the only way to make sure that you do NOT lose muscle while losing fat is to: 1) consume enough protein on a DAILY basis, and 2) decrease you training volume and/or frequency (NOT intensity!). You will certainly be able to more-than-effectively cleanse as Statuesque said on the Cleanse Diet, as well as lose fat, but you cannot maintain muscle while on the Master Cleanse Lemon Diet if you will need to skip out on protein as suggested. Granted, a day or two (two at absolute most... I personally will never go more than one day without 140 grams of protein and that is under unusual circumstances) won't leave a huge dent in your muscles, but three or four days will (as was suggested above in the previous post--I know because I have done it before!). I am just laying down the facts here. Any time that your body goes into a caloric deficiency and does not have an adequate amount of protein, your body goes into catabolic state, and your muscles WILL BE USED AS FUEL. I do not want anyone to be left misinformed.

[elwirra]

From my own experience best way to loose fat is just stop bothering about it.. Just start eating and exercising for your body. Your body is not you, you are the one who takes care about it.

If you're building musles just clean your body in other way - eat as lot of fruits and veggies as you want for example for a week or longer. Only raw fruits and veggies. It will clean you also, and not make your body suffer because of lack of food during doing exercices.

I think you don't really need so much technical knowledge about what to do with your body. Just listen to it and do your best to care about it.

[timarie]

From my own experience best way to loose fat is just stop bothering about it.. Just start eating and exercising for your body. Your body is not you, you are the one who takes care about it.

If you read what I wrote, I made it obvious that losing fat is definitely the easier thing to do. So yes, I agree with you that you should not "bother about it," as that is actually what worked for me years ago when I lost a lot of weight (without any regard to muscle mass, which I gradually lost until I recently decided to do something about it).

If you're building musles just clean your body in other way - eat as lot of fruits and veggies as you want for example for a week or longer. Only raw fruits and veggies. It will clean you also, and not make your body suffer because of lack of food during doing exercices.

I don't think you read any of my post, lol. Please do not come out to say that you think it is too technical for what is needed to get what you want from your body, when you did not read it at all! Please re-read. You CANNOT build muscles or even maintain muscles if you were to go on a cleanse of just fruits and veggies. You will lose A LOT of fat AND muscle that way. You NEED protein to build or maintain muscles. I have done it before, so I know first-hand. Of course, for some people this is fine, like maybe you (which is why you do not understand the reason for needing to understand muscle maintenance), but for others like myself and obviously saraa_aaa, it DOES matter. It is not an opinion of how the body works, so this is really not open for debate. It is a fact. And I already gave a recommendation for cleansing without losing muscles in my post above (The Cleaner). It does not include fat loss, unless you go with the fat loss/maintain muscle plan, also mentioned above.

I think you don't really need so much technical knowledge about what to do with your body. Just listen to it and do your best to care about it.

Although I understand where you are coming from as far as "doing what feels right" for losing fat (as I mentioned that has worked for me in the past when I needed to lose fat), but the truth of the matter is that if you want to reap a certain result from your body, you will need to understand your body. So yes, you do need to understand the so-called "technical knowledge" of your body to reap the results you want. This is why people come to this forum, for multiple other body enhancements, but most especially for enhancing breasts. They come because they know they need to understand how the body works, how hormones work, how different herbs effect these hormones, and so on, in order to reap the results that they want. They cannot just "do what feels right" and then get boobs. Maybe for a rare lucky few, but that is certainly not typical (that would probably only work for a person who grew from a change in diet in which they were originally lacking a lot of nutrition). The bottom line is, if you're content with whatever you've got, then your mentality works, of course, as it would work for everything for you because you do not desire any kind of result. But for those of us who want a certain result, such as larger glute muscles, less body fat, larger breasts, smaller waist, larger hips, a certain body shape... we need to understand our bodies to be able to do so. As you can read in the link I provided above, what is needed to lose fat also is what hurts muscle, and what builds to muscle may also contribute to difficulty losing fat (they are called being in the anabolic and catabolic states), and this is why it is complicated, unfortunately. I wish it wasn't this complicated, but it is. If it were not this complicated, everyone's bodies would look like the body builders (if you were male) or the bikini competition pros (if you are female). And no, they are not the result of simply just "eating right and losing fat." They have a very complicated diet and carefully-designed exercise plan, they WORK for how they look, which is why they are so worthy of the attention they now receive.

But please, before you write any more responses, please READ what is written first and if you do not understand it, feel free to either PM me or reply with a post asking about it. It is really not a matter of opinion that which I wrote about above. And although I love helping people with things and believe that there are no stupid questions and will answer anything asked, I do not appreciate stubborn ignorance. Please read that to which you respond!!!!

[CocoChanel]

Hi timarie, I may not read all your post thoroughly regarding cleanse/detox but I see that your main concern is not wanting to lose muscle. I was reading one of your post that you won't eat less than 140g of protein per day to maintain muscle. I'm not sure would this detox be of your interest. I take protein shake along with this.
http://totalhealthmagazine.com/articles/...-diet.html

Ps. Sorry making this post on the phone and may have some bad grammar and stuff.

[elwirra]

Timarie, the fact is I didn't read really carefully all what you had written, sorry that my previous post made you upset. I just can't agree with this:

You CANNOT build muscles or even maintain muscles if you were to go on a cleanse of just fruits and veggies. You will lose A LOT of fat AND muscle that way. You NEED protein to build or maintain muscles.

Acctually there is enough fibre in fruits and veggies and it is possible to maintain muscles.. You can also eat some nuts / seeds during this to be sure it's enough fibre in your cleasing. In my opinion the point is to eat only healthy and unprepared food and it will work well for cleaning.. Cleaning will not be as fast as only on grapefruits juice, but it will work also in a little bigger peroid of time.

This guy below, Patrick Babaumian, eats only fruits and veggies, and he don't have problem to pick up a washing machine and throw it..



And he is not only one example of sportsman on vegan diet. There are also frutarian (only raw fruits and veggies) sportsmen but they are much more skinny and their muscles aren't so big (but they are noticeable).

To clarify - I don't recommend to you to go vegan / frutarian because it's everybody own choice, I just reccoment to use this diet for cleasing for example for week or bit longer . In my opinion this is good option for you to do cleasing and maintain the muscles.

But you have to eat a lot - you can't be hungry! . And then you will not loose muscles you worked so hard .

This is only my opinion and proposal for you . For my boyfriend it works (we both are vegans)..

Good luck

[AbiDrew85]

Acctually there is enough fibre in fruits and veggies and it is possible to maintain muscles.. You can also eat some nuts / seeds during this to be sure it's enough fibre in your cleasing. In my opinion the point is to eat only healthy and unprepared food and it will work well for cleaning.. Cleaning will not be as fast as only on grapefruits juice, but it will work also in a little bigger peroid of time.

And I find myself needing to correct both of you. While elwirra is correct that it is possible to maintain and even develop muscle on a vegan or even fruitarian diet... It's that if you select the right nuts, berries, beans, and lentils, and eat ENOUGH of them, you can still get enough PROTEIN. Protein is still the magic nutrient necessary. You just don't necessarily need animal protein and actually there's lots of reasons NOT to eat animal protein if you can afford it.

I can't afford it. Animal protein is much much cheaper as a source of adequate protein.

[AbiDrew85]

As to the original topic...

I came across this recently, which I find interesting. It's not really a fat targetting cleanse, just a straight detox cleanse, but apparently you can keep it up permanently and it won't effect any of the things we do want in our bodies, and only microorganisms really.

Though I do question. If it kills any microorganisms that come into contact with or ingest it, then what stops it from killing the BENEFICIAL microorganisms that live in our bodies and HELP us?

I therefore haven't tried it, yet.

Dur. It'd help if I included the link.

http://www.ibreatheimhungry.com/2013/02/...earth.html

[elwirra]

Of course, protein is crucial to build muscles I didn't want to deny that . I was thinking that word "fibre" means "protein". Now I know what it mean in real . Sorry for that mistake.

I have to add one more correction about "expensivness" of vegetable protein..

Here we go:


Vegetable diet is acctually less expensive, that's why people in poor countries eat small amounts of meat and lot of vegatables.

But I don't feel that beans or other legumes will help clean your body so I didn't metioned them in this topic, but i'm not specialist . Maybe they can work also.

So that all from me about vegan diet and cleasing, I don't want to keep discuss about it . I just wish you luck in cleasing however it will look like

[AbiDrew85]

LOL. Red Meat. And BEEF STEAK at that... vs beans... You couldn't be more unfair.

Greek Yoghurt and chicken are what's cheap and awesome sources of protein.

You also need to take into consideration protein per serving, and not just % protein.

Most beans it takes a couple pounds to equal the protein in a quarter pound of chicken. And the protein concentration of greek yoghurt is unbeatable.

Now... beans ARE cheap. And a decent source of vegan protein... But they are DEFINITELY not low cal while doing so. And the carbs are nasty for some of us.

To stay low cal, and especially low carb, and still get vegan protein requires a LOT more money and very careful balancing.

[elwirra]

Ok, it's all right