[christinaaah]

omgosh so you get cramps too!! I don't know if I have seen it elsewhere and I googled it w not much info.. since I started PM I get pretty bad cramps on the first day of my period, like as bad as back before I started BCP . It's been so long I don't even really remember how I used to deal with them.. I think hot compress maybe? Hope they get better for you.

Abt when to take PM, I think somebody (mocha maybe?) takes it 5-12. I think it'd be better to start a little later to follow your body's natural production. But I'm not cycling so I don't really know.

[timarie]

omgosh so you get cramps too!! I don't know if I have seen it elsewhere and I googled it w not much info.. since I started PM I get pretty bad cramps on the first day of my period, like as bad as back before I started BCP . It's been so long I don't even really remember how I used to deal with them.. I think hot compress maybe? Hope they get better for you.

Abt when to take PM, I think somebody (mocha maybe?) takes it 5-12. I think it'd be better to start a little later to follow your body's natural production. But I'm not cycling so I don't really know.

Right! But then there is also the risk of having too much estrogen in your system during the time when your ovulation is supposed to occur, which happens on the 14th for most but may vary. I know once I ovulated on the 13th day of my cycle, so day 12 may be pushing it for me. I guess I will try days 4-12 of this cycle and see where that gets me (since today is already the third day, lol otherwise I would have done days 3-11 to steer clear of my ovulation).

And yeah the cramps were the worst I've had since college (like 10 years ago). And they lasted for all throughout the first two days of this cycle! I did not get any sleep that first night, which was terrible because the night after a hard workout is critical for muscle recovery. And as we all know, sleep is crucial for any kind of growth (yes, my boobies probably took a toll). I usually deal with cramps by using Midol or Ibuprofen but I am not happy when I have to use them more than twice for one period A hot compress may be worth looking into, but is it possible to conceal that while at work, running around in a classroom? I don't know! I think it would pop out of my pants...

[Augentrost]

there are big kind of plasters with a jelly on them especially for backache that heat up the muscle, might help with your cramps. the feeling bitchy is probably a sign of estrogen dominance, i think you made a good choice to reduce by a couple of days and hopefully this cycle will go smoothly.

i was reading one of the latest entries in chiyo's blog, she recons that 35 days is a healthy cycle length and that it gets shorter as women get older...so maybe yours isn't a bad thing? Mine has only been delayed once by one day, i guess this means i could probably up my dose of PM.

[timarie]

Today is my last day of taking PM. I will also take note that yesterday I accidentally took two tablets of PM and had some cramping mid-day, got lethargic and depressed to the point of going home and sleeping for the rest of the day! And I was trying to get some important car shopping done since it is difficult to squeeze into my week-day schedule. Bummer. But yeah, based off of that one time experience, it is confirmed that I am no where near ready to be increasing my PM dose.

Some other things worth noting...
I have been struggling a bit with my routines. 4 weeks ago my car was totaled, and then 2 weeks ago someone broke into my rental and stole my handbag. I was going to order more collagen that day but was unable to until this past Monday when I finally received my card replacement, but it was too late. So I have been without collagen for a couple days already, and my collagen is still in LA. Also, car shopping in the middle of the week has made it difficult to keep up with my upper body and cardio resistance training workout routines. Always being on-the-go (with my usual routine plus car shopping) has thrown off my diet schedule a bit, which is causing me to miss a few meals. I have been falling off to sleep by midnight every night which is good, but I fall asleep before I am ready for bed... I wake up in the middle of the night and take my evening supplements, drink my casein shake, and might do a quick massage with my PM cream and then snoogle.... EXCEPT for this week, in which I have not been able to snoogle except for once. As you can see, I have not been posting any updates because I am getting a little overwhelmed, although I do manage to measure every few days. I am just really disappointed because my breasts look deflated to me AND smaller. At least I know it is because I have been unable to keep up with my routine due to unusual circumstances. When I finally get over this hurdle, my breast growth should be back on track!

Also, another change to note that does not fall into the "I have been slacking in my routine" section but is also important to mention: I began taking Otsuka's Placenta C Jelly this past Thursday (so this is my fourth day taking it) and I have stopped taking the Maruman Pig Placenta tablets. I hope this is a good change! I will note that I only made the change because a significant price difference and also according to the nutritional information, there should be a lot more pig placenta per daily serving in the jelly than the capsules. I was not dissatisfied with any results of the Maruman placenta as I only took two months worth but I seemed to see some improvement in this time. I would still recommend this product. I just hope that I can get the same--or better--results with the less expensive jelly!

Ok, so here are my up-dated Follicular Measurements:

Underbust/Bust: 29"/36" (consistently)
Waist: 25.5"
Hip/Butt: 40.25"

I think it's pretty obvious why I have lost a bit off my waist and a tad off my bum (my inconsistent and less-than-usual diet). But I swear my boobs are smaller although the tape measurement shows no difference. Oh well. But what is odd is that my breasts fill my bras the same way they had when they started growing (or swelling) within the first cycle. They still spill over with most of my 32B's and fit my 32C. So, maybe I have not shrunk at all, but just not having any luteal swelling for my last cycle has probably brought my breasts to a very slumpy state.... I need to resume snoogling! I will update once I am back on track with this again.

there are big kind of plasters with a jelly on them especially for backache that heat up the muscle, might help with your cramps. the feeling bitchy is probably a sign of estrogen dominance, i think you made a good choice to reduce by a couple of days and hopefully this cycle will go smoothly.

i was reading one of the latest entries in chiyo's blog, she recons that 35 days is a healthy cycle length and that it gets shorter as women get older...so maybe yours isn't a bad thing? Mine has only been delayed once by one day, i guess this means i could probably up my dose of PM.

Wow, Augentrost, thanks so much for sharing! I had no idea that with following the Chiyo-method, that a 35 day cycle could still be considered a healthy length. This seems like something I can hopefully achieve in this cycle. As far as my bitchiness being a result of too much estrogen or not.... my body has a high tolerance for pain but, once I DO feel it, I don't deal with it very well! I was only bitchy for as long as the cramping lasted, haha. Do those plasters for the back not pop off? I need something I can wear while running after eloping students and ducking punches!

[vitoria2013]

You're so determined

and you're so wownderfull *_*

x****

[timarie]

SOOOO....

I guess there is a lot on which to update. I have been on a break from doing my lower body weight lifting (see http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=14868&page=4 Post #34), which created a domino effect and inevitably has been effecting my NBE program. Long story short, I cannot WAIT till I am off of this break! I am starting my 4th week today. 2 more weeks after this week and I can get my life back to normal!

Luteal Measurement Update
Underbust/Bust: 29"/36"
Waist: 25.5"
Hip/Butt: 40"

So yeah, measurements are still the same (aside from my butt, but this is not the thread to talk about that), despite the fact that my boobs don't seem to fill the bras the way they used to. Although I still fill my B cups, I no longer am spilling out of them and have a little air gap in my C cup

A couple changes to mention in my routine...
• I am currently not noogling AT ALL (or doing my hybrid fat transfer massage/lymph node massage) due to my new sleeping problem. I have a vacation coming up in two days, for which I will be sharing a hotel room with my family. I would like to set the re-start date for this for when I come back.
• I have not been drinking my MSM AT ALL because I have not been going to the gym at all. It was in my routine to drink at the gym. Today I will start drinking 3 MSM packs a day (instead of the usual 2) until I make up for the three weeks worth of MSM that I lost out on.
• I also got out of the habit of taking my collagen pills because I ran out (as mentioned in my last post). I have since gotten more in the mail, but have been unable to re-introduce it into my routine. The collagen pills are tricky because they need to be taken on an empty stomach and I almost NEVER have an empty stomach, and with my routines all thrown out of whack, I have been having the hardest time trying to fit it in. Due to this inconvenience, I really do hate these pills. I guess the only way to squeeze it back in is to take it regardless of a "full" stomach. Once it is again a "habit," I can try to work out a hole in my eating schedule to squeeze the collagen pills. I started taking them again today, but with food in my stomach.
• I finally have finished taking my annoying Biotin pills about a week ago. yey!
• I quickly ran out of my HTP-5 and was without it for maybe a little less than a month I just bought some more, and started taking them today.

Observations and thoughts...
• I have been very faithful to my BBT charts and can see the positive reaction that they had to my taking PM for only 9 days as opposed to 11 this cycle. My temps are not all over the place this cycle, and there is an obvious pattern that can be followed with a lower-temp phase followed by a higher temp phase. I can see what looks like my ovulation also, and it is 4 days earlier (on my 17th day) than it was for my last cycle! Hopefully, when my period DOES come, my cramps will be that much less!!!
• Projecting when I will be getting my period, will be about a week from today. I will be on vacation and will be going to a wedding. There are many options for my period to choose to come... it could chose to come while I am on the plane, while I am on the beach, while I am at the wedding in my light pink dress or the rehearsal dinner, or just out and about with family and relatives. This could be.... disastrous! I am not happy about the timing of this, AT ALL I don't mind so much dealing with the blood, but it is the day-long intense cramping for which I am not prepared. Also, that means I will need to bring with me an indefinite amount of pills, since I do not know when my Luteal Phase will be ending and do not know when I will be getting my period (and therefore, when I will be starting my PM). This just, really, sucks. Good thing I am on a break from my weight lifting... that is one less thing to have to worry about!
• I don't know why I did not include more Fenugreek in my routine, but upon doing more research on it, I really want to add it to my routine. From what I understand, it is NOT a phyto-estrogen (according to Susan) but rather just naturally increases one's natural production of estrogen. I like also how it increases prolactin and testosterone (honestly, I liked my testosterone levels the way they were, as it is supposed to help with muscle gain and decrease in fat... so, as the Fenugreek would increase my levels of testosterone, the Saw Palmetto would decrease and hopefully my levels will go back to somewhere where they were from the beginning). I know that estrogen is necessary for breast growth but I also feel that it depends on the person as to what will help more. I know most of my growth (or swelling ) was before I even started the PM! In fact, when I started the PM, was when my boobs became limp and never got back the swelling. I felt as though the Pig Placenta was key for me, as it is a growth hormone and glandular therapy, theoretically increasing all hormones (not just estrogen). Also, I don't know if this sounds silly but, I really think for my body I should "hope" more for breast growth from the development from the mammary glands instead of mostly the increase in fat, since I do not have a lifestyle that easily allows me to keep fat. And, if I am ever to keep fat on my breasts (instead of just trying to encourage it to be stored there with phyto-estrogens and to be quickly lost or "shed off"), I will need to focus on increasing my lipoprotein lipase and my estrogen receptors, all of which can be increased with the increase in prolactin. Also, I feel that my body, since it is underdeveloped, could very much benefit from mimicking puberty and pregnancy... which again are the only times in which prolactin is found in the female body. Fenugreek seems to be the most well-known herb for increasing prolactin. Plus, Fenugreek is extra HGH in addition to my pig placenta. And so, I would like to add a significant amount of Fenugreek throughout my routine. Can anyone who knows about this please comment? I THINK I know what I am talking about, but I do know that there is a great chance that I don't fully "get it" so corrections and advice are wanted! Also, I'm assuming it is ok to take Fenugreek while taking PM, but is it a good idea? Would it help? I'm assuming since it increases the natural production of estrogen, that maybe with the estrogenic levels increased by PM, the Fenugreek will increase only based on my body's needs (and therefore will increase less estrogen during the time I am on PM). Is this right, or am I being silly? Also, I am not sure how much I should take during my Luteal and Follicular phases, what amount is effective yet safe. I know lactating mothers are encouraged to take up to 5 grams a day. I am starting today with 3,660mg.

I'm getting sleepy, time to close out...

Thank you for having the patience and care to read this long-ass post. I love you, ladies!!!!!

You're so determined

and you're so wownderfull *_*

x****

Vitoria-- your presence is very much appreciated on this forum My love and heart goes out to you! Btw, I sent you a PM... I hope that you got it!

[Summerglow]

My suggestion is to start slow on the Fenugreek and take it for a few days you know you don't have a lot to do. The reason I say this is because it is known to cause sugar drops. It made me hypoglycemic and nothing I did would correct it to feel better. Low blood sugar is a terrible feeling. I was just taking one pill a day too! It was a few days before I noticed. I still have half a bottle and i think I can attribute taking it to some change in my breasts... if I ever take the rest I'll do it sporadically so that I don't get the blood sugar problems with it.

[timarie]

My suggestion is to start slow on the Fenugreek and take it for a few days you know you don't have a lot to do. The reason I say this is because it is known to cause sugar drops. It made me hypoglycemic and nothing I did would correct it to feel better. Low blood sugar is a terrible feeling. I was just taking one pill a day too! It was a few days before I noticed. I still have half a bottle and i think I can attribute taking it to some change in my breasts... if I ever take the rest I'll do it sporadically so that I don't get the blood sugar problems with it.

I did read that about Fenugreek (dropping blood sugar levels) but did not think much of it. I will need to consider this when I go to start up my workout routine again. Thanks for sharing your experience, Summerglow! I have no idea how many miligrams were in your one pill, so I cannot know if that is crazy or not (as it may be a high dosage). As for starting at a low dose while NOT exercising, however, I really think I may be the last person on this forum who will need to worry about it since I have a diet regulated to try to keep my body consistently in an anabolic state (in other words, I never go on an empty stomach, eating every 2-3 hours). Fenugreek may make it harder for me to keep in an anabolic state, but my diet should definitely keep me from experiencing hypoglycemia. My brother is a Type I Diabetic, so I am familiar with the symptoms of low blood sugars and how to fix it. Consuming more glucose calories than you burn is the only way to do it!

But as far as whether or not it can be taken with PM, can someone please confirm this (or deny this)?

[vitoria2013]

Vitoria-- your presence is very much appreciated on this forum My love and heart goes out to you! Btw, I sent you a PM... I hope that you got it!

*_* s2

i bought some PM and SP, im taking, well its being ok for me, it makes me feel more confortable sometimes....

But im thinking on buy that fenugreek too... maybe if i buy integral it works too? lol


=/

[timarie]

Update!

So, lots on which to update!

I just came back from my vacation last night, and I am on my 4th day of this 4th cycle (3rd full cycle on program). I am starting my PM today. My last cycle was 31 days long! That is ideal. I will stick to what I did with my PM last cycle (which was taking 9 PM capsules, as I took it days 5-12 but took 2 pills on day 11, so this time I will take 1 pill each day--as 2 pills was not a great experience--and take them days 4-12)

So I got my menses late at night after the rehearsal dinner, when we were hanging out in the hotel room afterwards. Definitely not the worst place to be upon getting it, but the next day (the first full day) is always the worst with cramping, and the next day was the day of the wedding! And yup, the cramping hit me more than usual, but significantly less than it hit me in the last cycle. I laid in the hotel bed a bit, but was feeling great for the wedding (my meds kicked in by then don't think I could ever do it without ibuprofen). Although my cramping was less than it was in the last cycle, the bleeding was more. And watery--? Weird. Very watery, and not thick at all.

So, I have decided not to take Fenugreek while taking PM just to be on the safe side, although according to Susan it is NOT a phytoestrogen, although multiple online sources says it is (probably not very reliable). So, I am inclined to believe that it is not a phytoestrogen as it just increases estrogen levels naturally, but I am not going to take it with PM because I don't want to increase my estrogen levels during my Follicular Phase more than it already is with PM, as it must be high already due to the long cycle I had for my 2nd cycle (1st full cycle) of my program. Maybe in the future when my body adjusts.

I have been consistent with drinking my MSM drink and 50/50 with my collagen I will try to "catch up" within this week on that. Tonight I will start snoogling again! I miss it, well, the results of it, that is

EDIT: I did not realize how much of a pill popper I was until I had to package all of my pills for my trip. I separated them by purpose (fat/muscle vs. NBE vs. daily health) in ziplock bags, and had so many ziplock bags that I had to buy a bag just for them I can't wait to cut some out! I will be discontinuing dandelion once I finish the bottle, since I was taking it mostly for the purpose of increasing estrogen receptors, but the prolactin increased by my FG will take care of increasing estrogen receptors so I have no need for the dandelion anymore.