[timarie]

Doll--

It may be a huge and difficult decision to make, but if it is the right one, it should be a relief for you... and that is the way it is sounding at least to me. I am so very happy for you! It completely makes sense now, in retrospect, to look back on how down you were on yourself despite all your feminine gains. It is great that you know now what you really need to do for your own happiness and stop unknowingly torturing yourself. Between discovering the benefits of your thyroid medication and now this, things are certainly looking up for you!

By the way, just a side note, but I am a little jealous I was talking to a girl in the gym a couple weeks ago about how difficult it is for a woman to obtain that "woman perfect" physique because it requires a growth of fat AND muscle in specific locations, and a loss of fat in specific locations, and as you know this is a difficult quest to conquer... but men only have to really gain muscle and lose fat, as far as a great looking masculine physique is concerned. I hate how what is expected of women is to be in shape, yet have enough fat in the right places.... But for men, what is expected is to just be in shape! With your determination, I am sure you will get that figure you are looking for soon enough! I do hope that you will keep us updated on your progress on this journey. Thank you for all that you have contributed to the plethora of information on this board towards getting a more womanly body. We are all here to support you in achieving your new goal I am so jealous that now you mostly have to worry about testosterone (which from the sounds of it, you already have plenty!) and building muscle and losing fat!! I will be honest to say that I hate this boobie-growing stuff... I like being fit and in shape, but I find messing with my hormones and decreasing my testosterone and trying to not lose too much fat (due to being afraid of losing it off of my bust) to be conflicting with my "getting in shape" goals. Hopefully this new journey for you should be not only more rewarding for you, but also hopefully easier!! Hopefully

Doll, you can be whatever you want to be, I truly believe that our bodies are all malleable and are always changing. Good luck, and keep us posted! We are all here for you.

[Anastasia916]

I just wanted to add a side note from an experience today... I met a lesbian couple today and one of them was a transgender, female to male, she was just starting her transformation into male and she had huge knockers eventhough she tried to hide them under a loose tshirt. I talked to her briefly, basically she had a kid, her son was 7 years old and a year ago she realized what she had always been, a male in a females body. She said for years she tried to deny it, got married had a kid, even got breast implants after having her son to look more feminine. She went all out trying to be the best female she could be (she showed me pics and she was HOT!) but she was miserable in that body. Now eventhough she just started her transformation, I got to say, without the knockers and before she talked, I would not have known she wasn't a guy! She has the face for it. Not saying she is not a beautiful female, but she also makes a handsome man. So now she's going to have her implants removed and going to have her ovaries removed and go on hormones to be who she really wants to be. So keep your head up Doll, at least you didn't go under the knife for implants!

[Lycaryth]

I hope you will be willing to share your new journey. Your last trip was ecstatic despite being faked... I can't help but wonder what you can do with real passion.

If you put your foot down for your new body as hard as you did for your old, I'd say you're already halfway there.

[Doll]

@Abi
Thanks, I'm Googling it now! Definitely been looking for a good aromatase inhibitor, but haven't been able to find anything solid!

@Anastasia
Oh, wow, I'm SOOOO glad I'm so against implants (not just for myself but on other women as well)! I would never be able to forgive myself if I'd made that mistake. o.o It's too bad she went through all that trouble just to realize it's not what she wants. And to think I was getting down on myself for spending all this money on herbs and stuff! Haha!

Although, I'm very disappointed now that I won't be able to get the type of top surgery I prefer. If I'd never tried NBE, I could have gotten keyhole surgery, and no one would be able to see my scars. But now it looks like I'm stuck with the other type that leaves VERY visible underbust scars for years, because it definitely seems like this is permanent breast tissue and they won't get any smaller with weight loss...=___= Oh woe is me...

Doll--

It may be a huge and difficult decision to make, but if it is the right one, it should be a relief for you... and that is the way it is sounding at least to me. I am so very happy for you! It completely makes sense now, in retrospect, to look back on how down you were on yourself despite all your feminine gains. It is great that you know now what you really need to do for your own happiness and stop unknowingly torturing yourself. Between discovering the benefits of your thyroid medication and now this, things are certainly looking up for you!

By the way, just a side note, but I am a little jealous I was talking to a girl in the gym a couple weeks ago about how difficult it is for a woman to obtain that "woman perfect" physique because it requires a growth of fat AND muscle in specific locations, and a loss of fat in specific locations, and as you know this is a difficult quest to conquer... but men only have to really gain muscle and lose fat, as far as a great looking masculine physique is concerned. I hate how what is expected of women is to be in shape, yet have enough fat in the right places.... But for men, what is expected is to just be in shape! With your determination, I am sure you will get that figure you are looking for soon enough! I do hope that you will keep us updated on your progress on this journey. Thank you for all that you have contributed to the plethora of information on this board towards getting a more womanly body. We are all here to support you in achieving your new goal I am so jealous that now you mostly have to worry about testosterone (which from the sounds of it, you already have plenty!) and building muscle and losing fat!! I will be honest to say that I hate this boobie-growing stuff... I like being fit and in shape, but I find messing with my hormones and decreasing my testosterone and trying to not lose too much fat (due to being afraid of losing it off of my bust) to be conflicting with my "getting in shape" goals. Hopefully this new journey for you should be not only more rewarding for you, but also hopefully easier!! Hopefully

Doll, you can be whatever you want to be, I truly believe that our bodies are all malleable and are always changing. Good luck, and keep us posted! We are all here for you.

I agree, it is much tougher to get a good female physique than a good male one. BEEN THURR. Although now that I've learned that spot reduction IS possible through striving for the perfect female body, I'm still using that to get the results I want for my perfect male body. Because although I do want masculine, semi-ripped muscles, I still would like to keep my ass for the most part. Because I still like guys with a juicy ass. So I'm trying to focus my fat burning on my arms and stomach more than anything, haha!

My OxyElite Pro has already taken a good bit of fat off my thighs (they're more muscle than fat now, although they still have enough fat where you can't see actual muscle definition). I've also lost an inch off my butt, which is good, because my butt is quite feminine and large for a man, but I don't want it to get too much smaller. I think once my hip muscles atrophy and my thighs get a little more thick with muscle I'll look man enough to overcome my bum. I'm learning that weight loss still isn't any easier as a man, but the muscle gains are already coming so much faster, so that's one thing that's much easier than being female. ^^; FTMs say once they started on T their muscles grew like crazy, so I guess once I get started on that I'll start hulking out real fast. LOL.

Only problem at this point is OTC T is illegal in the US, so I need to get some health insurance and a dr. asap before I can even start on hormones...IN THAT ASPECT, NBE IS MUCH SIMPLER. Especially since I hate doctors and think most of them are morons...

[Anastasia916]

You say spot reduction is possible, but it's one thing I struggle with. I can't seem to lose off the midsection and get toned where I want AND keep my butt and boobs the way I want... so what's the secret?

[AnnieBL]

Doll,

I quite like the term ‘dysphoria’ to describe the condition that gender problems can produce, often without the sufferer being aware of the real cause. My dictionary describes it as meaning bearing affliction or pain, impatience under affliction, morbid restlessness, or want of feeling of wellbeing. No way has my dysphoria been as severe as yours seems to be, and my road away from it runs opposite to your own new direction. I hope that your journey brings you the same inner peace that mine has. Good luck to you , and I hope that you will let us know how you get on - We’d be very sorry to lose you here. Don’t regret the experience you have gained over the last little while and be thankful that you are fifty years younger than I am, and to have the likelihood of time to enjoy at your destination.

One thought - we are all heavily influenced by the hormonal regime under which we exist at any time, and you seem to have been driven to a highly perfectionist attitude towards your female body. I think that you should be prepared to find that once relieved of your dysphoria, male hormones may give you a somewhat different and possibly less demanding perspective, in the same way that an (opposite) change in hormone regime has done for me.

I have some of the same feelings about doctors that you do (too many doctors in my family). In response to your comments about obtaining testosterone, I would expect that it is available UTC (under the counter) in the bodybuilding community. Although I have no expertise in this field, you might want to consider DHT (dihydrotestosterone) instead of T. Look it up, and there is also a very interesting chapter on it in the book ‘Sexual Health for Men: the Complete Guide” by Richard F. Spark. Substantial chunks of the book, including the DHT chapter, are sampled on Google Books. DHT is apparently much stronger and more persistent than T, and has the further advantage that it cannot be aromatised to estrogen and tends to suppress normal T production. Apparently it does not cause male pattern baldness or BPH when taken as an exogenous hormone. It has apparently been used in France not only to treat BPH (which will be of no concern to you), but also to treat gynecomastia, which suggests that it should be much more effective than T in reversing your NBE. Again, I am no expert, but it looks worth researching.

Good luck again!

[Doll]

^ I know my dysphoria isn't just my hormones, as I've always had it, even before starting on NBE. I actually suffer from BDD because my entire life, people have always made fun of me for my body, including my own mom. So I think it's safe to say those problems are here to stay...although I'm hoping that I can use that lifetime of humiliation to reinforce my identity as male. All those times people told me I was too hairy, that's because I'm a hairy guy. All those times I've been told my nose is ugly, that's because it's a guy's nose. My feet are too big because they're men's feet. My boobs are small and underdeveloped because they weren't supposed to be there in the first place. Maybe my tormented childhood will now be justified. I still think I'll always have issues, but I've secretly always been proud of my "flaws" that people made me feel self-conscious about, and now that I know why I take pride in them in my own mind, I feel much more ok with how I was made. If that makes any sense at all.

I know DHT is a much more direct solution, but I honestly think T will be enough for me. As I've said, I produce enough T naturally to have a very man-ish body anyways, to the point where my body barely knows I'm female. So I doubt I'll need much T at all to start to transition (which is why I'm hoping aromatase inhibitors will be enough to spark small changes in my body and the way it functions; I may even be able to stop my periods). I'm actually glad that I've spent the past year and a half researching hormones, because it's made me so much more prepared for this transition than most people who are already in the process. I may be starting from scratch, but I know all the cheats that'll help me win at this gender game. I doubt I'll be able to fully reverse my NBE, since I experienced a LOT of growing pains which means my body was probably building a lot of actual tissue rather than fat, but I'll take what I can get, and weight loss is already doing wonders in that area! Thanks a bunch for your input, though! Glad someone else in this world shares my feelings on doctors!

You say spot reduction is possible, but it's one thing I struggle with. I can't seem to lose off the midsection and get toned where I want AND keep my butt and boobs the way I want... so what's the secret?

I know it's harder for some people, and it actually makes me feel guilty for being able to spot train fairly easily.

I've been taking Borage Oil and Fish Oil every day (I bought the borage at Wal-Mart, just $4 and I only take 2-6 pills a day depending on what I feel like swallowing, giggidy), although some women seem to need more Borage Oil for it to work as well. I'm probably going to stop the borage oil, though, as it is rich in phytoestrogens (I don't know how I forgot this). They help burn belly fat almost exclusively. But to help it along I've been riding my bike at least 3 days out of the week for at least an hour (I also try to go up a lot of hills to tone and build my leg muscles while burning calories, and the muscles are actually building really fast!). I also use Sweet Sweat under a neoprene band on my waist, although if you want to save money, cocoa butter might work just as well (also, cocoa butter helps tighten and tone the skin!) I've used the Sweet Sweat and bands on my chest, stomach, and arms, and I can tell when I've been using them in one area more than the other, as that area slims a little bit faster (losing arm fat has been a slow process, but I can definitely see a difference and my biceps are showing a lot more than they ever have in my life). Oh, and drinking a lot of green tea has certainly helped as well, and also helps control my bloating.

It's a slow process, and some days I feel like I can't see that much of a difference anymore, but that's what progress pics are for. Sometimes I forget I've lost an inch+ on my waist since two months ago. Now that I'm on OxyElite Pro, I'm losing more allover (I just realized I lost some fat from my calves, as even they're more defined now), but I'm still seeing my biggest loses where I'm trying to target the weight loss. Normally on OEP, people claim their biggest losses came from their stomach, butt and thighs, and so far, my butt has only shrunk 2" (a little under, actually), and a good bit of that was hip fat, so I think my bands are doing a pretty good job at taking fat from the other areas. I also think because I stopped my hormones, my body is trying to get rid of my female fat that it'd built up, and I think that has a good bit to do with why I'm losing in that area at all.

Good luck, I hope you can manage to get decent results with your stomach. I was worried about toning my abs, but I've also found that just barely working them has already made my stomach look a LOT more toned and flatter, without widening me any yet. And my torso actually looks longer now because of it! So I highly suggest ab workouts now! ^^;
________________________________________
My Manly Progress
I had to stop taking the full dose of OEP for about a week because I got INCREDIBLY sick. But now I'm back up to the full dose and doing perfectly fine. I didn't want to stop it completely, because then I'd have to reintroduce it to my body, so as soon as I got better I was able to ramp back up immediately.

So far, I'm becoming more and more toned with the slight fat loss I'm experiencing. Because I'm no longer on female hormones and am back on my natural T, I'm gaining muscle like crazy! So I'm hoping to have a somewhat decent male body by summer, or at least by Otakon (where I'll be cosplaying a guy for the first time). My abs are toning up soooo well from just 3 or 4 workouts, and my arms have somehow gotten even stronger despite the fact that I was sick and couldn't workout for over a week.

I've started tanning because while I LOVE a pale woman, I think pale men don't look so masculine. I don't wanna be too tan, I just want to look like I get out of the house once in a while. ^^; I'm doing my third session today, also hoping I can get a decent tan by summer (I'm so pale I've already burned from two very short tanning sessions!)

I'm going to go full force with everything and buy an aromatase inhibitor today (haven't decided which one yet) to try to increase my natural DHT. Hopefully if nothing else it'll help prepare my body better for the T transition (I really doubt I'll need that much T when I do get some). My body hair is slowly growing out, it's such a pain. My legs are growing in patchy, too, because of my hypothyroidism, so that's not going to look good for a long while. :/

AS FAR AS MY BOOBS GO, I think they're about a 34D right now, maybe a small 34D. The only bra I have now is my 34C, and they're still too big for it, but hopefully they'll fit within the next month or so (oh, the mistakes we make). I'm happy with my 38" butt, and hope that all I lose from now on is from my hips. Funny how before I thought I had no hips, but now I look in the mirror and wish I had my old, actually hip-less body back, and I realize how curvy I've gotten. Oh, dysphoria, you've trumped me yet again.

[ab101bab]

would be cool to keep us updated on your reversal progress best of Luck!!

[Tinytots]

Good Luck Doll. You're in my prayers.

[Anastasia916]

I have a neoprene belt, I've considered order sweet sweat but didn't know if it worked. I already take borage oil it's a part of the Omega 3,6,9 supplement I take, but I may get a separate bottle to add in more. I have green tea, so I'll start drinking it more. The belt though, I find it awkward to workout in at the gym, I don't mind so much at home, but at the gym I don't like wearing it cause I feel people see it, even under clothes. Maybe my belt is too bulky. I've also seen on youtube girls using menthol rub on their bellies under neoprene belts to workout in or under plastic wrap.