[TsubakiBlossom]

Hey there! I'm curious as to which is better as an anti-androgen:

Red Clover or Hops?

Also, what brands do you prefer for your supplements? It would be nice if we had a survey for stuff like that lol.

What should the dosage be? And it's known as "hops flower," correct? (that's the only kind I can find)

Thank you for your time!

[AbiDrew85]

Hey there! I'm curious as to which is better as an anti-androgen:

Red Clover or Hops?

Also, what brands do you prefer for your supplements? It would be nice if we had a survey for stuff like that lol.

What should the dosage be? And it's known as "hops flower," correct? (that's the only kind I can find)

Thank you for your time!

Well, neither are really an anti-androgen at all... But hops might be at least a little anti-androgenic by way of increasing aromatization of extra androgens into estrogens.

Red clover wouldn't be even that much.

For a serious anti-androgen however, unless you're allergic, look no further than spearmint. Seriously amazing stuff.

Combining spearmint and hops would be a pretty powerful duo for most genetic girls who have a bit of an androgen problem.

Personally, I'm a genetic male (at least as far as I know) and I'm using PM, PC, FG, spearmint, and chinese skullcap. My spearmint doses are a bit on the extreme side at 1600mg three times a day. You might get away with far less. I think the recommended starting dosage set by Swansons is 400mg twice a day, which is geared more towards the average needs of a genetic female.

Chinese skullcap is probably more anti-androgen than you should need... it actually helps block off basically the entire steroidal hormonal pathway - starting at testosterone. So it inevitably reduces synthesis of your own bodies natural estrogens as well. Not really something most folks should be playing with unless they KNOW they're going to be replacing what they're eliminating.

Spearmint on the other hand simply blocks the androgen receptor sites... Binds very readily to them, but is entirely inert. You can scale it basically as you need it. The more receptors you have that need blocking the more you take. A biological male who has gone through male puberty will have significantly more androgen receptors than basically ANY biological female. Thus my seemingly crazy doses.

As for what hops is, yes, it's a flower. A lot of the most useful plants for NBE seem to be flowering type plants. As for what sort of dosing for hops you might consider using... I'm not terribly familiar with hops, especially hops for a genetic female. So hopefully someone else can answer you that question.

[TsubakiBlossom]

Well, neither are really an anti-androgen at all... But hops might be at least a little anti-androgenic by way of increasing aromatization of extra androgens into estrogens.

Red clover wouldn't be even that much.

For a serious anti-androgen however, unless you're allergic, look no further than spearmint. Seriously amazing stuff.

Combining spearmint and hops would be a pretty powerful duo for most genetic girls who have a bit of an androgen problem.

Personally, I'm a genetic male (at least as far as I know) and I'm using PM, PC, FG, spearmint, and chinese skullcap. My spearmint doses are a bit on the extreme side at 1600mg three times a day. You might get away with far less. I think the recommended starting dosage set by Swansons is 400mg twice a day, which is geared more towards the average needs of a genetic female.

Chinese skullcap is probably more anti-androgen than you should need... it actually helps block off basically the entire steroidal hormonal pathway - starting at testosterone. So it inevitably reduces synthesis of your own bodies natural estrogens as well. Not really something most folks should be playing with unless they KNOW they're going to be replacing what they're eliminating.

Spearmint on the other hand simply blocks the androgen receptor sites... Binds very readily to them, but is entirely inert. You can scale it basically as you need it. The more receptors you have that need blocking the more you take. A biological male who has gone through male puberty will have significantly more androgen receptors than basically ANY biological female. Thus my seemingly crazy doses.

As for what hops is, yes, it's a flower. A lot of the most useful plants for NBE seem to be flowering type plants. As for what sort of dosing for hops you might consider using... I'm not terribly familiar with hops, especially hops for a genetic female. So hopefully someone else can answer you that question.

You can tell how little I know about herbs. I'm more of a massage-hypnosis kind of gal lol.

I only ever thought there was spearmint tea, but glad to know about the supplements now.

So if I'm a female who's testosterone dominant (with little estrogen, and even less progesterone), what do you recommend I add to increase the latter? Testosterone has blessed me with a little more facial hair than I'd prefer, and a body that doesn't look as feminine as it should be. The people who say girls don't get buff when they lift heavy should take a look at me. I get buff doing even the little stuff. That why I only stick with walking, jogging, and stretching. But my lack of curve bothers me. You think balancing out my hormones would have the side effect of making my features more feminine? I'm not trying to get my hopes up, although I am curious.

Thank you so much!

[AbiDrew85]

You can tell how little I know about herbs. I'm more of a massage-hypnosis kind of gal lol.

I only ever thought there was spearmint tea, but glad to know about the supplements now.

So if I'm a female who's testosterone dominant (with little estrogen, and even less progesterone), what do you recommend I add to increase the latter? Testosterone has blessed me with a little more facial hair than I'd prefer, and a body that doesn't look as feminine as it should be. The people who say girls don't get buff when they lift heavy should take a look at me. I get buff doing even the little stuff. That why I only stick with walking, jogging, and stretching. But my lack of curve bothers me. You think balancing out my hormones would have the side effect of making my features more feminine? I'm not trying to get my hopes up, although I am curious.

Thank you so much!

It certainly ought to help at least. Sounds like you should definitely go with hops and spearmint. The tea's good too... I just used WAAAY too much honey to make it taste good to me. With pills it doesn't have to taste good, just pop em, wash em down, and be done with it.

For progesterone there's really no super good herbal solution. Fenugreek certainly might help, but you'll need a progesterone cream most likely. Especially as you start bringing your estrogen levels up.

[TsubakiBlossom]

It certainly ought to help at least. Sounds like you should definitely go with hops and spearmint. The tea's good too... I just used WAAAY too much honey to make it taste good to me. With pills it doesn't have to taste good, just pop em, wash em down, and be done with it.

For progesterone there's really no super good herbal solution. Fenugreek certainly might help, but you'll need a progesterone cream most likely. Especially as you start bringing your estrogen levels up.

Hops and spearmint it is then! Is the flavor of the tea strong? My wallet and I would probably prefer pills anyway.

Okay, definitely adding PC to my list. It seems really complicated to me though, I guess because I'm supposed to use it along with my cycle, correct?

Also, what effect would Maca bring if I added it while using all these? I'm curious about the 'balancing' it does with the hormones, being an adaptogen and all.

[AbiDrew85]

Hops and spearmint it is then! Is the flavor of the tea strong? My wallet and I would probably prefer pills anyway.

It's as strong as you make it. I was making it very strong due to my needs. I didn't actually work out the cost difference between tea or pills but yes, I imagine pills are cheaper as well.

Okay, definitely adding PC to my list. It seems really complicated to me though, I guess because I'm supposed to use it along with my cycle, correct?

Yep. During luteal. Simplest way is to use it for 2 weeks beginning immediately after ovulation.

Also, what effect would Maca bring if I added it while using all these? I'm curious about the 'balancing' it does with the hormones, being an adaptogen and all.

This I really don't know much about. Don't use it, and haven't done terribly much of my own research on it. I decided I could live with whatever adaptogenic response I had with FG and get the prolactin from it as well. Since I never had a female puberty, I need the prolactin released that would have been during puberty.

[TsubakiBlossom]

Yep. During luteal. Simplest way is to use it for 2 weeks beginning immediately after ovulation.

Will keep that in mind.

This I really don't know much about. Don't use it, and haven't done terribly much of my own research on it. I decided I could live with whatever adaptogenic response I had with FG and get the prolactin from it as well. Since I never had a female puberty, I need the prolactin released that would have been during puberty.

Okay, I'll be careful with my Maca use then. I think using a smaller dose of Maca with anti-androgens will work just fine for preventing turning the testosterone into DHT. I'll add it in after I get a good use of the anti-androgens, and get my PC kicking. I just need to find out a balance, since I don't want to use too much anti-androgens.

Thank you AbiDrew, you're a great help.

[Kaitlyn Kitten]

Hi T-Blossom!
If you're certain that your estrogen dominate then you should consider skipping the estrogen herbs for a couple months so you can re-balance; just using PC can really help! I have PCOS and excess androgens so we sound kinda similar. I stopped the PM and started using PC during luteal and have noticed a huge difference in acne and body hair. My boobs grow on PC alone so it a sign I am progesterone deficient. AbiDrew is right, definitely use spearmint.

[TsubakiBlossom]

Hi T-Blossom!
If you're certain that your estrogen dominate then you should consider skipping the estrogen herbs for a couple months so you can re-balance; just using PC can really help! I have PCOS and excess androgens so we sound kinda similar. I stopped the PM and started using PC during luteal and have noticed a huge difference in acne and body hair. My boobs grow on PC alone so it a sign I am progesterone deficient. AbiDrew is right, definitely use spearmint.

Thank you so much!!
Actually, I'm more like you; I was never diagnosed with having PCOS, but I lean more on that side, since I have more testosterone than anything. I'll definitely take your advice. Did you buy your PC online? I'm not sure which brand to use, any help would be much appreciated.

[TsubakiBlossom]

Also, kaitlyn, one more thing. Have you heard of NAC? I was researching it for something other than NBE, and found a lot of people with PCOS have benefited from it! Especially when it comes to acne and body/facial hair. I forgot exactly why, but it had to do with acting like an anti-androgen. Not quite sure yet, although I'll research some more. Just wanted to let you know in case you thought it would be helpful!