[Jenniferlove]

After a few of you mentioned the derma roller for collagen production and what it actually is (a bunch of tiny needles that penetrate the skin encouraging the absorption of products applied + new collagen production) I became intrigued! I have since read up on it and then just did a search on here for discussions on it but really didn't see any threads that answered my questions.

I see threads about stretch marks and how it does wonders for that issue (awesome!), but what I am wondering is how is it helping people who are using it for breast growth? Do any of you use it for this purpose when you're applying your creams?

Also, has anyone used it on their face? I'm obsessed with keeping my skin young and if this can help with fine lines I will purchase! Lastly, it looks like there is a cheaper version on ebay for $10. Has anyone used this one?

Just wanted ya'll's feedback first. Thank you!

[Tinytots]

I would not go with a Derm Roller. For one you are puncturing the skin which can lead to infection if not done properly and the unit must be cleansed properly.
I would go with the Time Master. Basically it is mesotherapy without the needles. Mesotherapy is where solution is injected into the dermis tissue. The Time Master is awesome. I am getting ready to use this for my breast. I will use a conducting gel and pm extract. I just started pm so I am adjusting the levels right now. There are many versions of this time master online. Mine is the professional one since I am licensed to buy this. It's 325.00 but you can find them cheaper but they may not penetrate as deep. Especially the ones from China.

So What is Electroporation?

Electroporation uses short modulated pulses of a low current to create transient aqueous pores in the skin. This application of an electrical pulse momentarily disrupts the cell membrane, allowing the entry of product. When the pulse ceases, the membrane returns to its original structure, leaving product that has been penetrated into the interior of the cell in place! The effect of the electroporation lasts for a few seconds, therefore allowing the introduction of product. This dramatically increases skin permeability. In lay mans language...electroporation is opening a door that allows us to insert products deeper into the skin.

This process also stimulates your skin to enable muscle toning, draining of liquids from intercellular space, and the production of new collagen and elastin.
I will try to post a picture of the one I have just in case anyone is interested.

[Jenniferlove]

I would not go with a Derm Roller. For one you are puncturing the skin which can lead to infection if not done properly and the unit must be cleansed properly.
I would go with the Time Master. Basically it is mesotherapy without the needles. Mesotherapy is where solution is injected into the dermis tissue. The Time Master is awesome. I am getting ready to use this for my breast. I will use a conducting gel and pm extract. I just started pm so I am adjusting the levels right now. There are many versions of this time master online. Mine is the professional one since I am licensed to buy this. It's 325.00 but you can find them cheaper but they may not penetrate as deep. Especially the ones from China.

So What is Electroporation?

Electroporation uses short modulated pulses of a low current to create transient aqueous pores in the skin. This application of an electrical pulse momentarily disrupts the cell membrane, allowing the entry of product. When the pulse ceases, the membrane returns to its original structure, leaving product that has been penetrated into the interior of the cell in place! The effect of the electroporation lasts for a few seconds, therefore allowing the introduction of product. This dramatically increases skin permeability. In lay mans language...electroporation is opening a door that allows us to insert products deeper into the skin.

This process also stimulates your skin to enable muscle toning, draining of liquids from intercellular space, and the production of new collagen and elastin.
I will try to post a picture of the one I have just in case anyone is interested.

Wow, so much new info! I really learn a lot here. Please keep us updated with how it goes! I am wiling to spend money on quality products but not really wanting to be a guinea pig, you know? I'm not loaded with cash unfortunately. Good luck!!

[Tinytots]

I would not go with a Derm Roller. For one you are puncturing the skin which can lead to infection if not done properly and the unit must be cleansed properly.
I would go with the Time Master. Basically it is mesotherapy without the needles. Mesotherapy is where solution is injected into the dermis tissue. The Time Master is awesome. I am getting ready to use this for my breast. I will use a conducting gel and pm extract. I just started pm so I am adjusting the levels right now. There are many versions of this time master online. Mine is the professional one since I am licensed to buy this. It's 325.00 but you can find them cheaper but they may not penetrate as deep. Especially the ones from China.

So What is Electroporation?

Electroporation uses short modulated pulses of a low current to create transient aqueous pores in the skin. This application of an electrical pulse momentarily disrupts the cell membrane, allowing the entry of product. When the pulse ceases, the membrane returns to its original structure, leaving product that has been penetrated into the interior of the cell in place! The effect of the electroporation lasts for a few seconds, therefore allowing the introduction of product. This dramatically increases skin permeability. In lay mans language...electroporation is opening a door that allows us to insert products deeper into the skin.

This process also stimulates your skin to enable muscle toning, draining of liquids from intercellular space, and the production of new collagen and elastin.
I will try to post a picture of the one I have just in case anyone is interested.

Wow, so much new info! I really learn a lot here. Please keep us updated with how it goes! I am wiling to spend money on quality products but not really wanting to be a guinea pig, you know? I'm not loaded with cash unfortunately. Good luck!!

I will keep you posted. I used it tonight and forgot my gel at work so used oil for pm extract, massaged then added water, used the machine. It did feel like needle pricks. Then used hot pad for 20 minutes. I do think as with anything it will take time and can only add to my progress. As so far I'm getting good stimulation with pm and I'm only takin 40mg of extract. But it works better sublingual than caps. I know it costs a lot. I have seen them for under 200 but it could be a knock off. One other thing, you can use this on your face and body. You can penetrate anything you want into the skin. Even anti oxidants serum or collagen serum, etc. basically i get a face lift every time I use it.

[timarie]

I will keep you posted. I used it tonight and forgot my gel at work so used oil for pm extract, massaged then added water, used the machine. It did feel like needle pricks. Then used hot pad for 20 minutes. I do think as with anything it will take time and can only add to my progress. As so far I'm getting good stimulation with pm and I'm only takin 40mg of extract. But it works better sublingual than caps. I know it costs a lot. I have seen them for under 200 but it could be a knock off. One other thing, you can use this on your face and body. You can penetrate anything you want into the skin. Even anti oxidants serum or collagen serum, etc. basically i get a face lift every time I use it.

So, could this help with healing scars then, tinytots? I wonder why the treatments are offered only for increasing skin permeability when it (according to what you wrote, which I assume you quoted from somewhere) also increases the natural production of collagen? I suppose if the dermaroller is offered as a treatment for that purpose more, then either 1) the dermaroller is more effective than the Time Master in regards to increasing the natural production of collagen, or 2) they are both just as effective in regards to naturally increasing collagen, but the dermaroller is less expensive. Those are the only reasons of which I can think that the dermaroller is still used for increasing natural collagen production while the Time Master seems to be used solely for increasing skin permeability. Interesting though. Will have to research them both more now! My main concern is healing my many many scars, so the increasing of skin permeability is an added bonus but I could take it or leave it. I need something that is BEST for increasing my skin's natural collagen production!

[Tinytots]

I will keep you posted. I used it tonight and forgot my gel at work so used oil for pm extract, massaged then added water, used the machine. It did feel like needle pricks. Then used hot pad for 20 minutes. I do think as with anything it will take time and can only add to my progress. As so far I'm getting good stimulation with pm and I'm only takin 40mg of extract. But it works better sublingual than caps. I know it costs a lot. I have seen them for under 200 but it could be a knock off. One other thing, you can use this on your face and body. You can penetrate anything you want into the skin. Even anti oxidants serum or collagen serum, etc. basically i get a face lift every time I use it.

So, could this help with healing scars then, tinytots? I wonder why the treatments are offered only for increasing skin permeability when it (according to what you wrote, which I assume you quoted from somewhere) also increases the natural production of collagen? I suppose if the dermaroller is offered as a treatment for that purpose more, then either 1) the dermaroller is more effective than the Time Master in regards to increasing the natural production of collagen, or 2) they are both just as effective in regards to naturally increasing collagen, but the dermaroller is less expensive. Those are the only reasons of which I can think that the dermaroller is still used for increasing natural collagen production while the Time Master seems to be used solely for increasing skin permeability. Interesting though. Will have to research them both more now! My main concern is healing my many many scars, so the increasing of skin permeability is an added bonus but I could take it or leave it. I need something that is BEST for increasing my skin's natural collagen production!

Yes timarie, the main idea about the derma roller was for collagen induction via trauma to the skin by an induced injury. I have heard it works great for scars but after a few times the skin gets very hyper sensitive. Which could lead to infection down the road. In my industry we have to be thoroughly trained on this service before we can provide the treatment. What I love about the TM is it is basically doing the Same thing without the injection. They both stimulate collagen. Products can be forced to a level in the skin we could not achieve before. Which is the cellular level where repair takes place. Which increases are top 2 proteins in the skin collagen and elastin. However you might see faster results with the derma roller since the injury will need immediate repair. I hope that all makes sense. Yes the Tm increases skin permeability but when products are able to be used at the cellular level (whatever it is you are trying to achieve, lightening the skin, acne control, oil regulating, fibroblast activity induces collagen) repair can start taking place.
Repair has to take place here before it can graduate up through the layers to the
Epidermis. I think that is why I love it. You don't have to injure the skin for repair. I can give it oxygen, nourishment, via the electrical stimulation.

[solome]

not directly related to the subject but reading here kept reminding me of something i was told by a gentleman who owned a health food store. he said his mother had a beautiful complexion into her senior yrs. she would take the stiffest brush and brush her face and neck [i guess to exfoliate and stimulate], then she'd coat her face and neck with liquid aminos for some period of time.

i have absolutely no idea if her skin absorbed any of this but sometimes, i'll take into the bath some freshly squeezed lemon juice and sugar to cleanse my face and neck and arms and afterwards, sometimes, coat with a liquid amino acid product for 10-15 minutes. no idea, whatsoever, if it helps but his story always fascinated me.

i also, read that aloe vera has a profound effect on fibroblast cells to produce collagen and elastin. i drink aloe vera juice, too, just to cover that base, if drinking it makes a difference. i'm really fascinated by the concept of the derma roller.

since this is my first post, i might mention, i've been massaging my breasts for about a year and know that it has made a difference. i also mix my own nutritional drink every morning. i haven't tried massaging fso, yet. but lately, too, i've been doing a bit of massage over my hips and butt. my butt stores a lot of fat but my hips need more tissue and fat. anyway, sorry, didn't mean to get off track, too much. i'm so happy to be here. solomé

[Tinytots]

not directly related to the subject but reading here kept reminding me of something i was told by a gentleman who owned a health food store. he said his mother had a beautiful complexion into her senior yrs. she would take the stiffest brush and brush her face and neck [i guess to exfoliate and stimulate], then she'd coat her face and neck with liquid aminos for some period of time.

i have absolutely no idea if her skin absorbed any of this but sometimes, i'll take into the bath some freshly squeezed lemon juice and sugar to cleanse my face and neck and arms and afterwards, sometimes, coat with a liquid amino acid product for 10-15 minutes. no idea, whatsoever, if it helps but his story always fascinated me.

i also, read that aloe vera has a profound effect on fibroblast cells to produce collagen and elastin. i drink aloe vera juice, too, just to cover that base, if drinking it makes a difference. i'm really fascinated by the concept of the derma roller.

since this is my first post, i might mention, i've been massaging my breasts for about a year and know that it has made a difference. i also mix my own nutritional drink every morning. i haven't tried massaging fso, yet. but lately, too, i've been doing a bit of massage over my hips and butt. my butt stores a lot of fat but my hips need more tissue and fat. anyway, sorry, didn't mean to get off track, too much. i'm so happy to be here. solomé

Sounds like skin brushing. Which is basically stimulating the lymphatic system to flush. I've never heard of anyone doing it on just the face. Usually you start at your ankles and move up toward the heart.

What's liquid amino acid. Never heard of that one. Lemon juice will lighten and exfoliate the skin. I'm sure it never hurts to try new things, especially when we can get them from our kitchen all natural. Thanks for your info.
I will have to look up about the aloe.

[timarie]

Thanks for the explanation! A lot to think about here. However....

Which is the cellular level where repair takes place. Which increases are top 2 proteins in the skin collagen and elastin.

Could you re-word what you are trying to say here? Your syntax has thrown me off a bit!
Thanks!

[Tinytots]

Thanks for the explanation! A lot to think about here. However....

Which is the cellular level where repair takes place. Which increases are top 2 proteins in the skin collagen and elastin.

Could you re-word what you are trying to say here? Your syntax has thrown me off a bit!
Thanks!

Our top two proteins that make up our skin are collagen and elastin which is formed in the skins cellular level. It is where repair takes place.

The dermis is a complex combination of blood vessels, hair follicles, and sebaceous (oil) glands. Here, you'll find collagen and elastin, two proteins necessary for skin health because they offer support and elasticity. Fibroblasts are the cells you'll find in this layer, because they synthesize collagen and elastin.

So not sure exactly what kind of answer you are looking for.