[lora]

ok, my plan will be :

1) increase progesterone :
pc :
i chose Source Naturals, the paraben free type
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/source-na...4-oz-cream
may be try smoky mountain or Life-Flo Progesta-Care later .

vitex :
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-p...g-120-caps
and
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/now-foods...ce-90-caps




2) GIT health by eating fibers and lignans :
( flaxseed oil or crushed flaxseed ),
carbs from vegetable and fruit sources.




3) High-Protein, Omega-3 Fats :
i used ON whey protein and i'm gonna switch to whey power plus,
http://www.wheypowerplus.com/

omega 3,
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-p...d-60-sgels

hoping it hasn't the bad fish odor
or
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-e...-100-sgels



4) Phytoestrogens To Promote the C-2 Pathway:
( flaxseed oil or crushed flaxseed ),
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/spectrum-...14-oz-pwdr
or
https://www.swansonvitamins.com/flax-usa...-16-oz-pkg

fenugreek.




5) Block Aromatase and Stop Testosterone From Turning into Estrogen:
DIM,
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/natures-w...e-120-caps

ZINC,
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/source-na...c-120-tabs




6) Improve Estrogen Metabolism By Promoting the C-2 Pathway :
DIM
EPA fish oils,
phytoestrogens,
B complex,
folic acid
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/optimum-n...en-60-caps
and
https://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-...0-veg-caps




7) Ensure Complete Elimination of Estrogen : & liver detoxification :
Calcium D-Glucarate
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/source-na...mg-60-tabs

and may be adding SAM
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/jarrow-fo...mg-20-tabs

Milk Thistle, Dandelion , Yellow Dock & blessed Thistle
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-p...k-120-caps
or
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/natures-w...le-60-caps
or
https://www.swansonvitamins.com/now-food...or-90-caps



8) Supplement With Essential Nutrients:
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/optimum-n...en-60-caps

grape seed extract,




9) exercise :
i chose yogaaaaaaa to help detoxification and decrease stress togother.



10) decrease testosterone :
chinese skullcap
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-p...mg-90-caps
and
Spearmint
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/alvita-te...-30-bags-s



11) noogleberry with flaxseed oil .

[lora]

things i finally chose to buy :


Liver Detoxifier & Regenerator :
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/now-foods...or-90-caps



DIM-plus (Diindolylmethane) :
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/natures-w...e-120-caps



Zinc:
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/source-na...c-120-tabs



Calcium D-Glucarate :
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/source-na...mg-60-tabs



Omega-3 Fish Oil & Vitamin D :
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-p...d-60-sgels



Super EPA Fish Oil :
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-e...-100-sgels




pc
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/source-na...4-oz-cream
I already have vitex .


femal balance :
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/now-foods...ce-90-caps



multivitamin :
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/optimum-n...en-60-caps



folic acid and vit B :
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-u...0-veg-caps



Spearmint Leaf Tea;
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/alvita-te...-30-bags-s




Full-Spectrum Chinese Skullcap :
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/swanson-p...mg-90-caps



Organic Ground Premium Flaxseed :
http://www.swansonvitamins.com/spectrum-...14-oz-pwdr



oh my goodness, what a coast

[TibetanPrincess]

This is a girl opinion that i like,

As far as BE is concerned, I stand by the statement that any growth due to progesterone usage is temporary. I have seen no exceptions so far.



 As far as BE is concerned, my opinion is that the only use for it is to resensitize/clear estrogen receptors. You are the one who brought this knowledge to the board and I think that if correctly used it is very effective!

"As far as BE is concerned, I stand by the statement that any growth due to progesterone usage is temporary. I have seen no exceptions so far."

Yes, that is what I have experienced;(

"As far as BE is concerned, my opinion is that the only use for it is to resensitize/clear estrogen receptors. You are the one who brought this knowledge to the board and I think that if correctly used it is very effective!"

No... It's been common knowledge on the forum for a while Its been known to be in the BB and UB formulas. But I was one of the ballsy few to find out how it worked with other nbe methods So many were against using it, believing it had nothing to do with breast growth. The main assumption was that estrogen sources were mainly what we needed. Well, we all know now, its not a fit for everyone. I had growth from using PC and not trying to do nbe, it was a happy side effect that led me to post about it and try nbe again on the forum


Also, you could probably do with out the flax oil (for estrogen reasons to play it simpler). I'd go with coconut oil or avocado maybe olive oil?

[lora]

This is a girl opinion that i like,

As far as BE is concerned, I stand by the statement that any growth due to progesterone usage is temporary. I have seen no exceptions so far.



 As far as BE is concerned, my opinion is that the only use for it is to resensitize/clear estrogen receptors. You are the one who brought this knowledge to the board and I think that if correctly used it is very effective!

"As far as BE is concerned, I stand by the statement that any growth due to progesterone usage is temporary. I have seen no exceptions so far."

Yes, that is what I have experienced;(

"As far as BE is concerned, my opinion is that the only use for it is to resensitize/clear estrogen receptors. You are the one who brought this knowledge to the board and I think that if correctly used it is very effective!"

No... It's been common knowledge on the forum for a while Its in the BB and UB formulas. But I was one of the ballsy few to find out how it worked with nbe So many were against using it, believing it had nothing to do with breast growth. The main assumption was that estrogen sources were mainly what we needed. Well, we all know now, its not a fit for everyone. I had growth from using PC and not trying to do nbe, it was a happy side effect that led me to post about it and try nbe again on the forum


Also, you could probably do with out the flax oil (for estrogen reasons to play it simpler). I'd go with coconut oil or avocado maybe olive oil?

thanks a lot tibetan, i'm not really sure about flax too, may be i'll try olive, but i thought if crushed flaxseed is a good addition as a weak phytoestrogen why can't i use flax oil too ? confused a little .

[TibetanPrincess]

This is a girl opinion that i like,

As far as BE is concerned, I stand by the statement that any growth due to progesterone usage is temporary. I have seen no exceptions so far.



 As far as BE is concerned, my opinion is that the only use for it is to resensitize/clear estrogen receptors. You are the one who brought this knowledge to the board and I think that if correctly used it is very effective!

"As far as BE is concerned, I stand by the statement that any growth due to progesterone usage is temporary. I have seen no exceptions so far."

Yes, that is what I have experienced;(

"As far as BE is concerned, my opinion is that the only use for it is to resensitize/clear estrogen receptors. You are the one who brought this knowledge to the board and I think that if correctly used it is very effective!"

No... It's been common knowledge on the forum for a while Its in the BB and UB formulas. But I was one of the ballsy few to find out how it worked with nbe So many were against using it, believing it had nothing to do with breast growth. The main assumption was that estrogen sources were mainly what we needed. Well, we all know now, its not a fit for everyone. I had growth from using PC and not trying to do nbe, it was a happy side effect that led me to post about it and try nbe again on the forum


Also, you could probably do with out the flax oil (for estrogen reasons to play it simpler). I'd go with coconut oil or avocado maybe olive oil?

thanks a lot tibetan, i'm not really sure about flax too, may be i'll try olive, but i thought if crushed flaxseed is a good addition as a weak phytoestrogen why can't i use flax oil too ? confused a little .

I believe you are safe with flaxmeal. Its the flax oil that may convert the T into E, last we know, you def don't need more E.
Even if its the weak phyto kind. I would imagine you need some healthy T levels as well to maintain.

Can someone correct me on this if I'm incorrect in understanding the difference between flax meal and oil?

You are welcome

[lora]

This is a girl opinion that i like,

As far as BE is concerned, I stand by the statement that any growth due to progesterone usage is temporary. I have seen no exceptions so far.



 As far as BE is concerned, my opinion is that the only use for it is to resensitize/clear estrogen receptors. You are the one who brought this knowledge to the board and I think that if correctly used it is very effective!

"As far as BE is concerned, I stand by the statement that any growth due to progesterone usage is temporary. I have seen no exceptions so far."

Yes, that is what I have experienced;(

"As far as BE is concerned, my opinion is that the only use for it is to resensitize/clear estrogen receptors. You are the one who brought this knowledge to the board and I think that if correctly used it is very effective!"

No... It's been common knowledge on the forum for a while Its in the BB and UB formulas. But I was one of the ballsy few to find out how it worked with nbe So many were against using it, believing it had nothing to do with breast growth. The main assumption was that estrogen sources were mainly what we needed. Well, we all know now, its not a fit for everyone. I had growth from using PC and not trying to do nbe, it was a happy side effect that led me to post about it and try nbe again on the forum


Also, you could probably do with out the flax oil (for estrogen reasons to play it simpler). I'd go with coconut oil or avocado maybe olive oil?

thanks a lot tibetan, i'm not really sure about flax too, may be i'll try olive, but i thought if crushed flaxseed is a good addition as a weak phytoestrogen why can't i use flax oil too ? confused a little .

I believe you are safe with flaxmeal. Its the flax oil that may convert the T into E, last we know, you def don't need more E.
Even if its the weak phyto kind. I would imagine you need some healthy T levels as well to maintain.

Can someone correct me on this if I'm incorrect in understanding the difference between flax meal and oil?

You are welcome

i'm with you, i think there is a difference .

[timarie]

Also, you could probably do with out the flax oil (for estrogen reasons to play it simpler). I'd go with coconut oil or avocado maybe olive oil?

thanks a lot tibetan, i'm not really sure about flax too, may be i'll try olive, but i thought if crushed flaxseed is a good addition as a weak phytoestrogen why can't i use flax oil too ? confused a little .

It is very obvious, since Tibetan, Abidrew, and I all agree (and it is common logic) that if your estrogen is very high, YOU SHOULD STAY AWAY FROM PHYTO-ESTROGENS unless, of course, you want higher estrogen levels! I don't know why you are so insistent on wanting to take some form of estrogen.

Also, I think it is important for you to remember that you are Estrogen dominant and that is all that you know. Since you do not know what is the cause of your estrogen dominance, I think it is very unwise to jump on the first possibility that you find. Who knows, you may just simply be estrogen dominant and you should just take it for what it is, and do what you can to help yourself in the situation that you know you are in. Like, for example, I am Testosterone dominant and am just now trying to work around that. It doesn't mean that I'm sick. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty damn sure that I'm not. I think you need to worry a heck of a lot less and just know that every one is different. Tibetan made a decent point in trying to make you aware of the possibility that it could mean that there is something wrong (although I'm pretty sure when she said that, she was talking about your low Progesterone levels, not your Estrogen levels), but she did not say that there was something wrong. You are taking every worse possibility scenario, taking it as fact, and already choosing to act on it. I think that if you could follow through with those tests that Tibetan suggested you get, just to make sure there are no problems (not because there ARE necessarily problems), and deal with the situation for now for what it is, like Abidrew advised by telling you that simply raising your Progesterone would inhibit your Estrogen, you would be doing the smart thing. I DON'T think it is wise to assume that you have an ovarian cyst or tumor until you KNOW this as a fact. And, I will say again, THE LAST THING YOU WANT IS ANYMORE ESTROGEN so please, drop your strong desire to do so!!!!

But, as a side note here, the diet you posted is an overall very healthy diet, so you would benefit from that-- not because you are estrogen dominant, but because it is healthy. Period! Glad you stumbled across your source for the sake of the diet

thanks timarie,
but what brand of Spearmint and chinese skullcap are you using ?

I am not taking them yet as I have only just placed the order this week (they shipped out the other day, though!). I will be taking them as soon as they come in. I will be sure to post in my thread when they come in and start taking them. I ordered from Swanson's

1) Improve Gastrointestinal Health :
by eating adequate fiber and include lignans in the diet, including flax, leafy greens, and bran (oat, rye, barley—if you’re not gluten-free). A probiotic is essential because it will increase the “good bacteria” in the gut and support neurotransmitter function.
(anyone knows what's the probiotic ?)

Probiotics stimulate the growth of microorganisms, or "good bacteria", that they speak of, which keep a healthy balance in your gut. The most familiar/common sources of probiotics are yogurt and soft cheeses.

i searched for estrogen blocker and i found that

http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Way-DIM-plus-120-Capsules/dp/B003DI96P6/ref=sr_1_5?s=hpc&ie=UTF8&qid=1380470180&sr=1-5&keywords=dim+200mg

it's a DIM, i'm gonna use it i think till i know what's the cause of my case.

i tried BO before but it didn't work .

but i thought that wy increase progesterone, there is even wy cream claiming to increase progesterone .

what do you think the problem that my prolactin may be causing ? i'm gonna tested anyway .

all i can do now is
pc
vitex (for progesterone production )
DIM (for estrogen blocking )
Scullcap and Spearmint (as anti androgen )
keep on whey protein
vit E
vit C

shouldn't i use fenugreek at all ? i was planning to use it in my follicular phase.

A couple things here.
I would listen to Abi about the DIM and not take it. She suggested for inhibiting your Estrogen to increase your Progesterone. Tibetan advised you against taking Vitex to raise your Progesterone levels because it also raises Prolactin which may possibly complicate things for you. It has been found that Wild Yam does not convert to Progesterone in the body:
"Although herbalists continue to use wild yam to treat menstrual cramps, nausea and morning sickness, inflammation, osteoporosis, menopausal symptoms, and other health conditions, no studies show that it works. Several studies have found that it has no effect at all. That is because the body cannot change diosgenin into progesterone; it has to be done in a lab. Wild yam, by itself, does not contain progesterone." Source: Wild yam | University of Maryland Medical Center http://umm.edu/health/medical/altmed/her...z2gcG5pjo4 . It IS a phytoestrogen though, which is why I advised you against it. Fenugreek is also an Estrogen-producing herb, which is why I advised against that. It doesn't make a difference what phase you take it in-- it's a phytoestrogen. You don't want it.

Store your PM in the fridge, or pour all your pm in jar of vodka and let it brew, shake it up every other day. By the time you are ready to take it, it will be nice and potent

Why would she ever want to take it, Tibetan??? Her body already naturally produces enough...

ok, my plan will be :

3) High-Protein, Omega-3 Fats :
i used ON whey protein and i'm gonna switch to whey power plus,
http://www.wheypowerplus.com/

Just curious, but why did you choose to switch to whey power plus? I am pretty well versed in the world of protein powders and this one has ONLY shown up to me when I viewed the Bountiful Breasts website. Please don't tell me that's why you've chosen to go with it! I have never seen it before otherwise, which does not mean it is bad, but certainly not a likely very reputable brand. I also personally don't like how they falsely claim to have "the purest and most absorbable form of whey protein in existence." Yes, they may use protein isolate, but the fact is that hydrolyzed whey is the purest and most absorbable form of whey protein in existence. This does not mean that the powder they sell will be bad, but considering all the more trust-worthy brands out there also with good powders, I would definitely prefer to go to the company that is honest. If you want to go with a whey protein isolate, every reputable protein powder company sells whey isolate. It is not a new discovery or special like whey power plus makes it sound. I also don't like how they group all other protein powders into a generic broad label as "whey protein": "Whey protein is a cheaper product containing fat and casein. Whey protein which costs less money contains whey protein not whey protein isolate." Um, whey isolate (therefore whey power plus) IS whey protein. What they MEANT to say is whey concentrate, I suppose. Why do they advertise their product like their consumer knows nothing about protein? Oh that's right, because it must not sell well by anyone other than people who, in fact, don't know anything about protein! The only way they get their name out there is to women who want to grow their boobs. ::facepalm:: Please notice that it is NOT sugar free, NOT cholesterol free, NOT fat free, despite their advertising which claims they are free of these things. Check out the nutrition facts label.

Sorry for the rant. I just hate it when companies are dishonest and treat the customer like they don't know any better! They are over advertising for a reason....

[TibetanPrincess]

Of course, this is assuming when she has cleansed her blood, organs and tissues of the Estrogen. She can't take it (PM) now, but she can take it later. Though it may be months or a couple of years ( if due to a cleansing fail).

She just has to get balanced with normal output and re establish the sensitivity to the hormones. There's nothing wrong with PM if used correctly. She simply over did it this time.

I've been there. I took a year off, cleansed heavily and returned to try a couple more times. Now, finally I have growth in this latest attempt. Because I have crossed all my T's and dotted my i's by doing everything I could, WITH CAUTION.

I came back 3 years later with Low estrogen and progesterone which allowed me to try phyto estrogens, progestins again and for the first time, glandular therapy So just because PM is not fit for her now, doesn't mean it won't be fit for her in the future.

The good news is, hormones fluctuate all the time. Her high levels won't stay this way unless she keeps doing what she's doing (which she knows better now) or has done some serious endo damage- cause her p output to be consistently non existent.

This is where she will find out.

[lora]

ok first of all girls i don't consider my p level is extremely low, it just below than range by .04 and this is not too bad, second there is noway timarie to increase my p while my E that high, as from articles i read, too much E in the body inhibit the secretion of p and may be other hormones too, this because the body feels that it has a lot of hormones and doesn't think which hormone it has a lot of but simply the body thinks that this level of hormones is enough and it doesn't need anymore so, it shuts the secretion of hormones especially p the most similar in action to E .
this high level of estradiol not only inhibit the secretion of p but also stops the body responding to all estrogen .
so, my high E level is a very important consideration and the detoxification process is highly recommended as tibetan said too .

considering the phyto estorgen, i'm not insist to use it at all, actually i hate what E makes with my body, but as you see in my other thread there are 2 theories about phytoE, by the way the theories i read are from articles have a good references and scientifically logical .

ok let's see, the first theory mentioned that it may be a benefit using phytoE as it helps replacing the bad old estardiol accumulated in the body and helps detoxification " and this theory to somewhat similar to what the admin says here http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=5135
it says " use very low dose phytoestrogens (crushed flaxseed) to block estrogen receptors from more potent estrogens "
so, my conclusion is there is a difference between the bad type of estrogen (esradiol ) causing the E dominance case and the good type phyto-E, BUT , the phyto E may convert into the bad type in the body espcially a body like me, so i think if anyone gonna use this theory it must be with very high caution. may be using it in very low dose,very weak phytos and in organic form like crushed flax , tibtan and i believe i'm ok with crushed falx but not falx oil but, we don't actually know the difference.

the second theory about phyto you all already know .

anyway we should differentiate all the time between the good type of estrogen and the bad type that must be detoxified and eliminated from the body all the time .

and my cause to choose to switch to whey power plus is that ON company wasn't very honest actually, i researched a lot about all types of protein before buying and found that whey protein is the most suitable for my needs and the isolate is the top of whey, the best and the most expensive, which ON agree with too and mention that on its label, so i was searching for a whey protein isolate and found that ON is the less expensive one, i wondered why but i reviewed the product more than one time and found that they say 100% whey protin isolate , so i bought it .
but when i received it i found this on its back label and i got depressed
it says " whey protein isolates are the purest form of whey protein that currently exist. WPIs are costly to use, but rate among the best proteins that money can buy. that's why they're the first ingredient you read on the main label." but it's just the primary ingredient not the 100% as they said first and the other is whey protein concentrate . this explains why its coast is low.
so i'm on two choices now, whey power plus or GNC , and if you don't prefer whey power plus i'll choose GNC .
by the way, whey power plus contains no sugar and very low non-considerable amount of fats and cholesterol compared with the very high amount of sugar , fats and cholesterol in ON

WHEY POWER PLUS :
no sugar at all ( safe for diabetic)
total fats 0.7g
cholesterol 8.5mg
no gluten
no MSG
no artificial sweeteners


ON :
sugar 2 g (very high actually )
fats 1.5 g (very high too )
cholesterol 40mg (very very high )

so, i'm looking for an honest company and very good quality product .

[lora]

my bad acne came back again when i stoped sp, what to do now ?
it was too much improved when i used sp .