[lora]

Use Phytoestrogens To Promote the C-2 Pathway
Include foods with phytoestrogens in your diet because they will take natural and chemical estrogens out of play in the body. Phytoestrogens are plant-based compounds that can bind to estrogen receptors, but they have about 1/1000th of the effect on the body as real or chemical estrogen. When phytoestrogens bind to estrogen receptors they basically take up the parking sport of the true estrogen, and keep it from exerting its effect.

Lignans and isoflavones are the main phytoestrogens, and in addition to binding with estrogen receptors, they can increase SHBG levels (protects the body by binding to estrogen), decrease aromatase (prevents testosterone turning into estrogen), and shift metabolism of estrogen away from the C-16 pathway to the C-2 pathway (the safer pathway).

The best phytoestrogens to include in the diet are flax, sesame, leafy greens, kudzu, alfalfa, clover, licorice root, and legumes. Greens, flax, and sesame can be easily added to the diet, and the others can be supplemented to support estrogen detoxification.


Sesame seeds also provide fiber and fenugreek helps lower the insulin response to carbs, making both good additions to your diet.


it seems that phytoestrogens will help me to overcome my estrogen dominance, so i don't have to wait until my hormonal ratio come into normal and balance to begin using phytoestrogens .
if this true so it's ok to use my fenugreek caps and adding fennel too or wild yam, am i right ?
may be just during the follicular phase .

[AbiDrew85]

...........

This is NOT how it works!

Please stop trying to rationalize using phytoestrogens. They're wrong for you. We've told you that.

[lora]

...........

This is NOT how it works!

Please stop trying to rationalize using phytoestrogens. They're wrong for you. We've told you that.

i'm not trying to rationalized anything, i'm just searching and this seems very logical actually for me , and here is a thread by admin mention that too, so i wanna know the most right facts .
http://www.breastnexus.com/showthread.php?tid=5135

it says " use very low dose phytoestrogens (crushed flaxseed) to block estrogen receptors from more potent estrogens "

so, just wondering how could this be wrong ?

[TibetanPrincess]

Actually Abi, I believe she CAN utilize the phytos from whole foods, they are very weak compared to many of the top herbs and will bind to many of her receptors. Though no one truly knows how the body will function to handle this, not even MD's.There is a lot of theory, you will just have to try it @ Lora. It worked for me.

Now, I've done this before with my very first nbe attempt (high DHEA), though all of my hormones where out of range crazy high, my estradiol was the highest and quite dangerous. I had massive headaches and the worst bloating and cramps, I thought I could die!
I felt like my insides were being ripped out at times. I did a series of flushing colon and liver and no herbs. i then did full body chelation capsules. I ate cleaner and did 3 tblspns of coconut oil daily and filled out quite nicely with a healthy bmi (not the breasts though, sadly). I was underweight then. I did take DIM/IC3 supps.

I would def. look into supplementals to metabolize the estrogen as it sounds like you have loads free running in the blood.

Supplemental very weak phytos and metabolizers from whole foods of fruits and veggies and stay away from herbs and spices except for salt and pepper).

No grains what-so-ever. There's a PRIME reason why many high raw vegan (80/10/10) women have very light periods to non existent (not all of them are cardio or exercise fanatics). The food is cooling and can be damp to the womb, they don't eat meat or dairy (that's loaded with hormones/ hormone percursing cholesterol). The fruits and veggies are weak in progestin-like effects and phyto estrogens. So your output should come back down to normal. My only concern is why is your progesterone so low (below range right?)

So you need to just get on a high vegan raw diet for a month and then eat regular and still, little meat, no dairy,no grains ( maybe brown rice for the exception) and no herbs. Just warming, clean foods, very little raw soaked nuts, and seeds.

[lora]

Actually Abi, I believe she CAN utilize the phytos from whole foods, they are very weak compared to many of the top herbs and will bind to many of her receptors. Though no one truly knows how the body will function to handle this, not even MD's.There is a lot of theory, you will just have to try it @ Lora. It worked for me.

Now, I've done this before with my very first nbe attempt (high DHEA), though all of my hormones where out of range crazy high, my estradiol was the highest and quite dangerous. I had massive headaches and the worst bloating and cramps, I thought I could die!
I felt like my insides were being ripped out at times. I did a series of flushing colon and liver and no herbs. i then did full body chelation capsules. I ate cleaner and did 3 tblspns of coconut oil daily and filled out quite nicely with a healthy bmi (not the breasts though, sadly). I was underweight then. I did take DIM/IC3 supps.

I would def. look into supplementals to metabolize the estrogen as it sounds like you have loads free running in the blood.

Supplemental very weak phytos and metabolizers from whole foods of fruits and veggies and stay away from herbs and spices except for salt and pepper).

No grains what-so-ever. There's a PRIME reason why many high raw vegan (80/10/10) women have very light periods to non existent (not all of them are cardio or exercise fanatics). The food is cooling and can be damp to the womb, they don't eat meat or dairy (that's loaded with hormones/ hormone percursing cholesterol). The fruits and veggies are weak in progestin-like effects and phyto estrogens. So your output should come back down to normal. My only concern is why is your progesterone so low (below range right?)

So you need to just get on a high vegan raw diet for a month and then eat regular and still, little meat, no dairy,no grains ( maybe brown rice for the exception) and no herbs. Just warming, clean foods, very little raw soaked nuts, and seeds.

thanks tibetan , i'm really sorry that you had passed all of this but it's very similar to my situation on every thing nearly except for hashimoto i read on your thread that you had .

i read on some articles that when there is much of estradiol in the body it stops the progesterone secretion and the body Stops responding even to this high estrogen , this is may be the reason for my low p and it explains why i was growing on my puberty normally and suddenly every thing stopped like if someone shut down my growth , and yes i know now who was this one who shut every thing in my body, it's the bad high concentration of E .

and may be this low p level is due something else it may appears on my next test result .
or could be due to a month of using sp while i didn't know i'm E dominant.


but how can i stop administering milk and my whole protein shake depend on it ? i can't bear protein shake taste on water or something els rather than milk .

[TibetanPrincess]

Actually Abi, I believe she CAN utilize the phytos from whole foods, they are very weak compared to many of the top herbs and will bind to many of her receptors. Though no one truly knows how the body will function to handle this, not even MD's.There is a lot of theory, you will just have to try it @ Lora. It worked for me.

Now, I've done this before with my very first nbe attempt (high DHEA), though all of my hormones where out of range crazy high, my estradiol was the highest and quite dangerous. I had massive headaches and the worst bloating and cramps, I thought I could die!
I felt like my insides were being ripped out at times. I did a series of flushing colon and liver and no herbs. i then did full body chelation capsules. I ate cleaner and did 3 tblspns of coconut oil daily and filled out quite nicely with a healthy bmi (not the breasts though, sadly). I was underweight then. I did take DIM/IC3 supps.

I would def. look into supplementals to metabolize the estrogen as it sounds like you have loads free running in the blood.

Supplemental very weak phytos and metabolizers from whole foods of fruits and veggies and stay away from herbs and spices except for salt and pepper).

No grains what-so-ever. There's a PRIME reason why many high raw vegan (80/10/10) women have very light periods to non existent (not all of them are cardio or exercise fanatics). The food is cooling and can be damp to the womb, they don't eat meat or dairy (that's loaded with hormones/ hormone percursing cholesterol). The fruits and veggies are weak in progestin-like effects and phyto estrogens. So your output should come back down to normal. My only concern is why is your progesterone so low (below range right?)

So you need to just get on a high vegan raw diet for a month and then eat regular and still, little meat, no dairy,no grains ( maybe brown rice for the exception) and no herbs. Just warming, clean foods, very little raw soaked nuts, and seeds.

thanks tibetan , i'm really sorry that you had passed all of this but it's very similar to my situation on every thing nearly except for hashimoto i read on your thread that you had .

i read on some articles that when there is much of estradiol in the body it stops the progesterone secretion and the body Stops responding even to this high estrogen , this is may be the reason for my low p and it explains why i was growing on my puberty normally and suddenly every thing stopped like if someone shut down my growth , and yes i know now who was this one who shut every thing in my body, it's the bad high concentration of E .

and may be this low p level is due something else it may appears on my next test result .
or could be due to a month of using sp while i didn't know i'm E dominant.


but how can i stop administering milk and my whole protein shake depend on it ? i can't bear protein shake taste on water or something els rather than milk .

Yep, Estradiol is detrimental when really high and when dominant. SP will give you much of you E, I dont think you were taking that much, but it certainly didn't help.

Maybe just a good brand of whey powder (no additives) with almond milk? Or you can do amino/collagen tabs. I use a brand called youtheory (from costco). It seems to be super (type I II III) which is sometimes hard to find.

[timarie]

Actually Abi, I believe she CAN utilize the phytos from whole foods, they are very weak compared to many of the top herbs and will bind to many of her receptors. Though no one truly knows how the body will function to handle this, not even MD's.There is a lot of theory, you will just have to try it @ Lora. It worked for me.

Now, I've done this before with my very first nbe attempt (high DHEA), though all of my hormones where out of range crazy high, my estradiol was the highest and quite dangerous. I had massive headaches and the worst bloating and cramps, I thought I could die!
I felt like my insides were being ripped out at times. I did a series of flushing colon and liver and no herbs. i then did full body chelation capsules. I ate cleaner and did 3 tblspns of coconut oil daily and filled out quite nicely with a healthy bmi (not the breasts though, sadly). I was underweight then. I did take DIM/IC3 supps.

I would def. look into supplementals to metabolize the estrogen as it sounds like you have loads free running in the blood.

Supplemental very weak phytos and metabolizers from whole foods of fruits and veggies and stay away from herbs and spices except for salt and pepper).

No grains what-so-ever. There's a PRIME reason why many high raw vegan (80/10/10) women have very light periods to non existent (not all of them are cardio or exercise fanatics). The food is cooling and can be damp to the womb, they don't eat meat or dairy (that's loaded with hormones/ hormone percursing cholesterol). The fruits and veggies are weak in progestin-like effects and phyto estrogens. So your output should come back down to normal. My only concern is why is your progesterone so low (below range right?)

So you need to just get on a high vegan raw diet for a month and then eat regular and still, little meat, no dairy,no grains ( maybe brown rice for the exception) and no herbs. Just warming, clean foods, very little raw soaked nuts, and seeds

No one was talking about extremely weak photos found in foods except for her occasional mention of flax and sesame. She takes them already without knowing. Obviously that can be no big deal. What was originally being addressed (and Tibetan you need to remember) was that she wanted to take things like FG and WY. She should not be taking ANY extra since it's low P that's the primary concern.

Sorry I just had to keep you all on track with what was the real issue at hand that Abi is also reacting to. And lora you need to realize that none of us were ever THAT concerned with your high E levels. .. rather, more concerned about your low P. understand? Tibetan is saying the same thing but appears as though she is trying to come off like she does not disagree with you. .. Everything I wrote to you in my last post in your other thread is correct and you need to STOP worrying so much about it and just try to increase your P. Take tests like Tibetan said before you assume you have any problems (remember you don't KNOW if you have any problems! But it almost seems like you WANT to have problems???) and try to increase your P like Abi said.

The only things you need to be concerned with are the low P and the high T. So keep it simple to start, with just PC and spearmint and chinese skullcap and only add more IF needed, after trying the simplest solution first for a few months. Abi seems to think if you should add ANYTHING later it'd likely be FG for prolactin.

[timarie]

oops! ignore this post

[AbiDrew85]

Abi seems to think if you should add ANYTHING later it'd likely be FG for prolactin.

FWIW, timarie's been keeping me updated on this thread after I voluntarily bowed out and I mentioned this part and several other things she's saying in our private conversations... I just don't like competing for attention, so do what you want, we're just trying to save you from getting hurt by poor choices down the line.

[TibetanPrincess]

***Been Edited***

@timarie

I was actually in response to:
"Use Phytoestrogens To Promote the C-2 Pathway
Include foods with phytoestrogens in your diet because they will take natural and chemical estrogens out of play in the body." (from Lora's found article)

In no way am I promoting the use of phytos from herbs or strong phytos from plants such as WY and Fenu (as stated in my post).

I knew what she was trying to accomplish in doing this, i was just addressing the use of phytos from actual foods. I wasn't disagreeing with abi. It just came across that he was completely dismissing the use of phytos period in what she is trying to do. I just wanted to let lora know it can be done, but through actual food, not the herbs we all stated are a bad idea. Hence why I said no herbs(phytos) just salt n pepper n whole fruits n veggies . Sorry if I wasn't clear.

***Edit***
Now I think I see what the misunderstanding is. I was strictly addressing the phytos in whole foods in lora's findings (which Abi or you have not mentioned, and you my dear stated that Thank you) and Abi was strictly addressing/ responding to the strong phytos from plants and herbs, seeming that he dismissed the whole idea of supplemental phytos (from actual foods).

@abi, just out of curiosity, what exactly do you mean by "competing for attention?"

As long as Lora understands what the overall concensus is. And I'm sure she does