[lora]

Yep, Estradiol is detrimental when really high and when dominant. SP will give you much of you E, I dont think you were taking that much, but it certainly didn't help.

Maybe just a good brand of whey powder (no additives) with almond milk? Or you can do amino/collagen tabs. I use a brand called youtheory (from costco). It seems to be super (type I II III) which is sometimes hard to find.


[/quote]

thanks tibetan, amino collagen is a pretty good idea, i'll add protein complex capsules too and i'm gonna focusing on your brand next time i think to buy more collagen, but now i finished almost my search about E dominant and i'm trying to finish your thread as well. actually i admire your will and patient in achieving such progress and your case looks very similar to mine .
there is much to learn from your thread, your pictures is pretty nice too, but i looked for a before picture in your thread and unfortunately didn't find it yet . i hope i could see your before picture, i wanna know was it bad and so flat like mine too ?

and yes i got the idea of the 2 theories now , and this my favorite advice you gave me that i'll do ( a high vegan raw diet for a month and then eat regular and still, little meat, no dairy,no grains ( maybe brown rice for the exception) and no herbs. Just warming, clean foods, very little raw soaked nuts, and seeds. )
thanks a lot .
but with this vegan raw diet i'll not be able to gain weight right ? as i lost 2 kg right after stopping sp .

[timarie]

***Been Edited***

@timarie

I was actually in response to:
"Use Phytoestrogens To Promote the C-2 Pathway
Include foods with phytoestrogens in your diet because they will take natural and chemical estrogens out of play in the body." (from Lora's found article)

In no way am I promoting the use of phytos from herbs or strong phytos from plants such as WY and Fenu (as stated in my post).

I knew what she was trying to accomplish in doing this, i was just addressing the use of phytos from actual foods. I wasn't disagreeing with abi. It just came across that he was completely dismissing the use of phytos period in what she is trying to do. I just wanted to let lora know it can be done, but through actual food, not the herbs we all stated are a bad idea. Hence why I said no herbs(phytos) just salt n pepper n whole fruits n veggies . Sorry if I wasn't clear.

***Edit***
Now I think I see what the misunderstanding is. I was strictly addressing the phytos in whole foods in lora's findings (which Abi or you have not mentioned, and you my dear stated that Thank you) and Abi was strictly addressing/ responding to the strong phytos from plants and herbs, seeming that he dismissed the whole idea of supplemental phytos (from actual foods).

@abi, just out of curiosity, what exactly do you mean by "competing for attention?"

As long as Lora understands what the overall concensus is. And I'm sure she does

Exactly!
As for your last line, I hope so, although I sure was given a hell of a time for trying to re-iterate what was already told to her by you and Abi. Just to clarify for her what YOU both said, as she was being selective with what she wanted to hear at the time, but because I was the one who tried to make it clear-- slit my throat! X-/

i hope i could see your before picture, i wanna know was it bad and so flat like mine too ?

and yes i got the idea of the 2 theories now , and this my favorite advice you gave me that i'll do ( a high vegan raw diet for a month and then eat regular and still, little meat, no dairy,no grains ( maybe brown rice for the exception) and no herbs. Just warming, clean foods, very little raw soaked nuts, and seeds. )
thanks a lot .
but with this vegan raw diet i'll not be able to gain weight right ? as i lost 2 kg right after stopping sp .

Her "before" photo is posted only a couple pages back. Search and you'll find it. She was not entirely flat. Hers was more like mine, with a little bit of meat to work with.

If you want to gain weight it will be harder on the raw vegan diet, but since you will only be doing it for a month it should not present too much of a loss. If you absolutely want to prevent weight loss, eating the foods of the diet in large quantities (to increase your caloric input) will help you to maintain your weight (if not gain weight!) if it is greater than your caloric output. So, you should be fine if you manage to eat enough!

[lora]

Actually Abi, I believe she CAN utilize the phytos from whole foods, they are very weak compared to many of the top herbs and will bind to many of her receptors. Though no one truly knows how the body will function to handle this, not even MD's.There is a lot of theory, you will just have to try it @ Lora. It worked for me.

Now, I've done this before with my very first nbe attempt (high DHEA), though all of my hormones where out of range crazy high, my estradiol was the highest and quite dangerous. I had massive headaches and the worst bloating and cramps, I thought I could die!
I felt like my insides were being ripped out at times. I did a series of flushing colon and liver and no herbs. i then did full body chelation capsules. I ate cleaner and did 3 tblspns of coconut oil daily and filled out quite nicely with a healthy bmi (not the breasts though, sadly). I was underweight then. I did take DIM/IC3 supps.

I would def. look into supplementals to metabolize the estrogen as it sounds like you have loads free running in the blood.

Supplemental very weak phytos and metabolizers from whole foods of fruits and veggies and stay away from herbs and spices except for salt and pepper).

No grains what-so-ever. There's a PRIME reason why many high raw vegan (80/10/10) women have very light periods to non existent (not all of them are cardio or exercise fanatics). The food is cooling and can be damp to the womb, they don't eat meat or dairy (that's loaded with hormones/ hormone percursing cholesterol). The fruits and veggies are weak in progestin-like effects and phyto estrogens. So your output should come back down to normal. My only concern is why is your progesterone so low (below range right?)

So you need to just get on a high vegan raw diet for a month and then eat regular and still, little meat, no dairy,no grains ( maybe brown rice for the exception) and no herbs. Just warming, clean foods, very little raw soaked nuts, and seeds

No one was talking about extremely weak photos found in foods except for her occasional mention of flax and sesame. She takes them already without knowing. Obviously that can be no big deal. What was originally being addressed (and Tibetan you need to remember) was that she wanted to take things like FG and WY. She should not be taking ANY extra since it's low P that's the primary concern.

Sorry I just had to keep you all on track with what was the real issue at hand that Abi is also reacting to. And lora you need to realize that none of us were ever THAT concerned with your high E levels. .. rather, more concerned about your low P. understand? Tibetan is saying the same thing but appears as though she is trying to come off like she does not disagree with you. .. Everything I wrote to you in my last post in your other thread is correct and you need to STOP worrying so much about it and just try to increase your P. Take tests like Tibetan said before you assume you have any problems (remember you don't KNOW if you have any problems! But it almost seems like you WANT to have problems???) and try to increase your P like Abi said.

The only things you need to be concerned with are the low P and the high T. So keep it simple to start, with just PC and spearmint and chinese skullcap and only add more IF needed, after trying the simplest solution first for a few months. Abi seems to think if you should add ANYTHING later it'd likely be FG for prolactin.

thanks tim you make things very simple actually and i hope it will be that simple
but i think it wont be that easy, hormones system is very complicated .

[timarie]

thanks tim you make things very simple actually and i hope it will be that simple
but i think it wont be that easy, hormones system is very complicated .

You're welcome, doll It is important to keep things simple, especially at first, because you're right-- the endocrine system IS complicated! If we start off approaching things in a too complicated or too worried way, things will only get more complicated than they already are. At least, that is my experience in NBE and in life. Start off simple, and as time goes on and you gain more experience and knowledge, dig deeper and get more complicated. When you have more experience, you can handle the more complicated details.

Also, I just hate to see you so upset and worried. Feeling this way can only make things worse for you That is also my experience. An optimistic attitude will be what pulls you through this, when you finally manage to! I am a strong believer of like attracts like. Think positively, and positive things will eventually come to you! We are all here for you Things will get better!

[lora]

thanks a lot a lot a lot , i'm facing very complicated problems in my personal life and i was in very high need to hear exactly what you just said .
thankssssssssssssssssssssss very much dear