[sweetpea]

I heard prolactin is good for breast growth but I am kind of scared to take goat's rue because many women's breasts shrink after breast feeding. I read that this is because the milk duct growth sometimes replaces fat. Could taking goat's rue cause our breasts to shrink in the long run?

[EllaC]

I heard prolactin is good for breast growth but I am kind of scared to take goat's rue because many women's breasts shrink after breast feeding. I read that this is because the milk duct growth sometimes replaces fat. Could taking goat's rue cause our breasts to shrink in the long run?

IM NO EXPERT BUT.. if you've breast fed before goats rue can induce lactation, it did for me.. but that's what I used it for. so that said its a pretty strong herb. I never dreamt that breast feeding would shrink breasts but the more research ive done Ive found out it can IN SOME PEOPLE.. in others post breast feeding they keep their increase in size. my mother case in point. had no boobs pre me, then after me gained some boobs, then after my sister gained more boobs, and they never left! then I hear on here about women who have lost all and more due to breastfeeding. So its an open ended question really. Myself after breastfeeding for a short time I went back to original size if not smaller where as my mother gained ALOT. We are in the same family obviously so goes to show there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason when it comes to things like this.

[EllaC]

PS im not beyond thinking about trying goats rue myself again some time down the track for BE purposes assuming I have source it in my country!! we cant get anything here

[surferjoe2007]

Many women's breasts shrink after getting larger after pregnancy. It's not related to breast feeding specifically, that's a myth. It's due to hormonal changes, and probably an imbalance. Goat's rue does not lead to an imbalance; it will balance you out if anything since it is good for more than just prolactin. Pueraria mirifica or sometimes hops without progesterone could lead to an imbalance. Progesterone cream can often counteract a post-weaning imbalance. Progesterone cream alone could likewise cause the opposite imbalance if overdone. Fennel or under 125 mg vitex are much weaker options to give prolactin, so results are slower but it's harder to overdo it too. As long as you have enough estrogen and progesterone you could take 100 mg vitex, it would be likely to help a little bit thanks to prolactin and it costs about $0.05 a month.

In short goat's rue would be good. Vitex would be good. Progesterone cream would be good as long as you don't overdo it and end up on the opposite side. Unless you counterbalance it with something. Avoid PM or hops, unless counterbalanced by PC. And while many women have an imbalance after pregnancy, not all do. A hormone test is the only way to be sure, or you could be addressing the wrong issue. Or else balancing herbs like goat's rue and weak herbs like vitex are a safer bet than accidentally using too much PC.

[EllaC]

Many women's breasts shrink after getting larger after pregnancy. It's not related to breast feeding specifically, that's a myth. It's due to hormonal changes, and probably an imbalance. Goat's rue does not lead to an imbalance; it will balance you out if anything since it is good for more than just prolactin. Pueraria mirifica or sometimes hops without progesterone could lead to an imbalance. Progesterone cream can often counteract a post-weaning imbalance. Progesterone cream alone could likewise cause the opposite imbalance if overdone. Fennel or under 125 mg vitex are much weaker options to give prolactin, so results are slower but it's harder to overdo it too. As long as you have enough estrogen and progesterone you could take 100 mg vitex, it would be likely to help a little bit thanks to prolactin and it costs about $0.05 a month.

In short goat's rue would be good. Vitex would be good. Progesterone cream would be good as long as you don't overdo it and end up on the opposite side. Unless you counterbalance it with something. Avoid PM or hops, unless counterbalanced by PC. And while many women have an imbalance after pregnancy, not all do. A hormone test is the only way to be sure, or you could be addressing the wrong issue. Or else balancing herbs like goat's rue and weak herbs like vitex are a safer bet than accidentally using too much PC.

Hi Surfer.
So does vitex balance "all" the hormones or just estro/progest? But being a weak herb this balancing would take longer?
Also where does DIM come into things, does DIM just help get rid of excess bad estrogens?
Also Can you tell me what fenugreek really is? And in your opinion how fenu affects your estro or hormones in general?
Sorry to bombard you with all this but you've always had such helpful advise and somewhat relevant to this thread

[surferjoe2007]

Vitex adds prolactin. That only provides balance if you were low in prolactin and high in the others. It might be related to progesterone too. Most but not all women are high estrogen and low progesterone and prolactin after breastfeeding. Yes vitex takes a long time to have much effect. Vitex is also known as "chasteberry" from those that intentionally used it to cause the opposite imbalance with excess prolactin and low estrogen, which makes you asexual.

I could be wrong but I think DIM breaks down estrogen in general. It is good if your estrogen is too high and you don't want to raise other hormones to match. But ideally for NBE you would want to keep the estrogen and instead raise progesterone and prolactin to match it. Unless the high estrogen is causing you real trouble and all you want is to get rid of it.

Fenugreek, wild yam, shatavari and goat's rue all contain steroidal saponins. They are molecules similar in structure to all hormones. Fenugreek increases the effects of luteinizing hormone which leads you to make more hormones in general, and I think it increases the effects of those hormones too. IMO any one of those herbs is good all on its own, or in combination with anything else.

If you can't get a hormone test or it's too expensive, you could combine 40-125 mg vitex (not more), a few hundred mg red clover, and as much of a steroidal saponin herb as you want (2,000 mg to 25,000+ mg if you can stomach it). That would tend to push you towards the middle. No need to cycle any of those. It's not nearly as effective as PM or PC, but with PM you might accidentally make your estrogen way higher than your progesterone, or with PC you might accidentally make your progesterone way higher than your estrogen. Or either could mess up your cycle. Ideally you'd get a hormone test and take the right amount of both at the right times of the month. Or you guess and hope you didn't guess wrong.

[EllaC]

Vitex adds prolactin. That only provides balance if you were low in prolactin and high in the others. It might be related to progesterone too. Most but not all women are high estrogen and low progesterone and prolactin after breastfeeding. Yes vitex takes a long time to have much effect. Vitex is also known as "chasteberry" from those that intentionally used it to cause the opposite imbalance with excess prolactin and low estrogen, which makes you asexual.

I could be wrong but I think DIM breaks down estrogen in general. It is good if your estrogen is too high and you don't want to raise other hormones to match. But ideally for NBE you would want to keep the estrogen and instead raise progesterone and prolactin to match it. Unless the high estrogen is causing you real trouble and all you want is to get rid of it.

Fenugreek, wild yam, shatavari and goat's rue all contain steroidal saponins. They are molecules similar in structure to all hormones. Fenugreek increases the effects of luteinizing hormone which leads you to make more hormones in general, and I think it increases the effects of those hormones too. IMO any one of those herbs is good all on its own, or in combination with anything else.

If you can't get a hormone test or it's too expensive, you could combine 40-125 mg vitex (not more), a few hundred mg red clover, and as much of a steroidal saponin herb as you want. That would tend to push you towards the middle. No need to cycle any of those. It's not nearly as effective as PM or PC, but with PM you might accidentally make your estrogen way higher than your progesterone, or with PC you might accidentally make your progesterone way higher than your estrogen. Ideally you'd take precisely the right amount of both, if you don't make a mistake when guessing without a hormone test.

Thanks surfer. Got it. Its all a big guessing game really isn't it unless you get your hormones checked. I cant understand why it cost's soo much and why it isn't a requirement for any women with post natal depression or even for good health in general, in hindsight had I been suggested to get a hormone panel done when I was suffering from severe post natal it may have just made my life a whole lot easier. If I'd known back then what I know now I would have made my doctor give me one.
Thanks again.

[sweetpea]

Very helpful info surferjoe. I'm gonna give goat's rue a try. I'm high in estrogen and testosterone and normal in progesterone so my plan is to take goat's rue, DIM, turmeric and spearmint and massage with borage oil. Should I add anything else?

[surferjoe2007]

Sounds good.

[sweetpea]

Fenugreek, wild yam, shatavari and goat's rue all contain steroidal saponins. They are molecules similar in structure to all hormones. Fenugreek increases the effects of luteinizing hormone which leads you to make more hormones in general, and I think it increases the effects of those hormones too. IMO any one of those herbs is good all on its own, or in combination with anything else.

Does this mean that goat's rue only increases the hormones that need to be increased? Or does it always increase prolactin? I read that prolactin and progesterone are inversely related, so I was thinking it didn't make sense for me to try to increase my prolactin and progesterone at the same time. If I need more progesterone, I probably have too much prolactin. But I am taking goats rue and vitex right now and my hormones feel more balanced. Does this mean the goats rue isn't increasing my prolactin too much? I am kinda worried about that.