01-09-2012, 23:01
Help!! with premarin and breast growth options
December 5 2009 at 4:39 PM Aerie (Login aerie84)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello everyone,
I'm asking about the herbs and estrogens and progesterones and all the fun endocrinological things I've been studying about and have quite a few questions... From what I am studying( and it's been a lot trust me) I know that the herbs we are taking are very very mild and have little to no effect. Something like 1000xs less potent than bioidentical hormones.
Has anyone had experience with using premarin and a progesterone pill or cream???
Seems to me that to get any results we'd have to ingest something with a little power enough to cause some change. The herbs like fenugreek are so much less powerful than estrogen and cannot be used as estrogen itself in the body and therefore cannot increase estrogens supply in the body. Things like wold yam mimic progesterone butcannot be converted to progesterone in the body and so is a waste of a supplement.
In order for things to work we'd have to take estrogen and progesterone as supplements themselves for a few months in the same way the body uses them....
First 14 days of cycle estrogen should be used more than progesterone with day 14 being estrogens highest day but careful to not take too much of either hormone so as not to shut the others production off. - and then switch to higher progesterone use than estrogen use during the last 14 days and stop both to get period then begin the cycle again.... In this way we'd have increased estrogen and progesterone sufficiently to cause a change in the body.
Has anyone had experience with bioidentical hormones PRE menopause???? And how has it erected you??
Wahaika waxingmoon and other scientific or curious minds are welcome to comment.
Author Reply
Aerie
(Login aerie84) Re: Help!! with premarin and breast growth options December 5 2009, 4:44 PM
Oh and that massaging and noogleberryinf ahould only be done during menstruation so as not to disrupt the production of fsh after menstruating of the production of lh during the production of prolactin while massaging/ noogleberrying
Aerie
(Login aerie84) Re: Help!! with premarin and breast growth options December 5 2009, 4:58 PM
and another thing lol... Increase fat levels... Not so much protein... As is needed for menstruation to occur like in puberty unless fat levels are already at at least 20%... to me
thus all makes sense...
Anyone else?
Shanen
(Login xShanenx) Re: Help!! with premarin and breast growth options December 5 2009, 7:06 PM
"Oh and that massaging and noogleberryinf ahould only be done during menstruation so as not to disrupt the production of fsh after menstruating of the production of lh during the production of prolactin while massaging/ noogleberrying"
Can you please explain this? Thanks!
aerie84
(Login aerie84) Re: Help!! with premarin and breast growth options December 7 2009, 1:04 AM
Well prolactin , as according to this site http://www.sharedjourney.com/define/prolactin.html and various scientific studies have found, is a hormone produced only during two times in a healthy womans life- pregnancy and puberty. Prolactin, during puberty, has a role in developing the breasts. I don't know if you've ever tried noogleberry and or massaging techniques but I have and when I did I noticed my period would skip or come super late.
I thought not much of it but when I researched it I found it was for a very senseful reason. You see, prolactin is a goal during nbe and it can be produced through sucking of an infant or other methods that mimic it. What I found is that during the production of prolactin, follicle stimulating hormone and gonadotropin releasing hormone, which ensure that an egg is matured, are inhibited and ovulation does not occur.
Estrogen is a major influencer during the first 14 day of the cycle and it matures the egg so that it can be released at ovulation. If prolactin is produced an egg is not matured and estrogen production is slowed down...
So what I'm concluding is that noogleberry may produced prolactin and may slow down estrogen which is nit good for breast enlargement. It should nit be done during your cycle when estrogen is naturally building up... Only after ovulation has occurrd should it be done and maybe not even then.
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Help!! with premarin and breast growth options December 7 2009, 4:27 AM
Aerie,
Very interesting stuff. This previous comment points to hyperprolactinemia as a cause of some instances of PCOS. Would you agree?
As for premarin for NBE in the first post, I have a few cautions about that.
1) It is only available through prescription, but under a doctor's supervision could be used, but on full strength hormones, I think that some direct way of application would be more advised than a global one. That is, by taking premarin to enhance the breasts, there would also be effects on the uterus also, for example.
2) It would only apply to some women, like those not estrogen dominant.
3) It would invoke the negative feedback system and downregulate endogenious estrogen.
Wahaika
aer
(Login aerie84) wahaika December 7 2009, 6:03 AM
thanks for the response,
what I was referring to was that the massages and exercises we do are trying to get prolactin to be produced. that is the goal, is it not?
to me it seems backwards because of the prolactin/FSH/estrogen circle. hyperprolactinaemia does not need to be the cause of prolactin production. the ingestion of drugs that promote the production of milk, like fenugreek and pretty much all the herbs we are taking, and the excessive breast stimulation caused by massage and noogleberry, could be the reason a woman may skip her period during this time.
I found that once I stopped massage and noogleberry and fenugreek, my period came back. When I only used fenugreek and no massage, my period was normal.
I have been evaluated for PCOS 3 times in the past year because I wanted to know..and I was fine.
I definetley think there is a connection between massage, galactogues(?<--spelling) and prolactin...
what do you mean by hyperprolactinaemia?
Aerie
(no login) Re: Help!! with premarin and breast growth options December 7 2009, 6:17 AM
Also with premarin, I also intended to use a progesterone drug with it. Negative feedback would not necessarily come into play unless the doses were too high at the wrong time. Instead use higher doses of estroge to progesterone first 14 days and higher progesterone to estrogen in latter 14 days like your cycle. Of course your cycle would have to be predictable but nonetheless a valid idea.
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Help!! with premarin and breast growth options December 8 2009, 4:44 AM
Hyperprolactinemia is just a term for overproduction of prolactin.
Hyper = Over production.
Prolactin => The subject condition or substance.
emia => Condition. Kinda like "....itis" is used for describing infections.
Premarin
Interesting theory.
Prolactin
Copying the other thread here for reference.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/th...n+response
------------
Well prolactin , as according to this site http://www.sharedjourney.com/define/prolactin.html and various scientific studies have found, is a hormone produced only during two times ina healthy womans life- pregnancy and puberty. Prolactin, during puberty, has a role in developing the breasts. I don't know if you've ever tried noogleberry and or massaging techniques but I have and when I did I noticed my period would skip or come super late. I thought not much of it but when I researched it I found it was for a very senseful reason. You see, prolactin is a goal during nbe and it can be produced through sucking of an infant or other methods that mimic it. What I found is that during the production of prolactin, follicle stimulating hormone and gonadotropin releasing hormone which ensures that an egg is not matured or released an ovulation does not occur. Estrogen is a major influencer during the first 14 day of the cycle and it matures the egg so tht it can be reeased at ovulation. If prolactin is produced an egg is nit matured and estrogen production is slowed down... So what I'm concluding is that noogleberry may produced prolactin and may slow down estrogen which is nit good for breast enlargement. It should nit be done during your cycle when estrogen is naturally building up... Only after ovulation has occurrd should it be done and maybe not even then.
--------------
OK. I'm not a noogleberry fan, but this is an interesting subject. We need to define puberty a little better in relation to NBE. Is it safe to say that we are looking at the time during puberty that breasts do all of their development and most of the enlarging? This is before menarche when there is, by definition, no corpus luteum to produce progesterone. If there is progesterone during pre menarche development of breasts, it must be produced elsewhere.
December 5 2009 at 4:39 PM Aerie (Login aerie84)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello everyone,
I'm asking about the herbs and estrogens and progesterones and all the fun endocrinological things I've been studying about and have quite a few questions... From what I am studying( and it's been a lot trust me) I know that the herbs we are taking are very very mild and have little to no effect. Something like 1000xs less potent than bioidentical hormones.
Has anyone had experience with using premarin and a progesterone pill or cream???
Seems to me that to get any results we'd have to ingest something with a little power enough to cause some change. The herbs like fenugreek are so much less powerful than estrogen and cannot be used as estrogen itself in the body and therefore cannot increase estrogens supply in the body. Things like wold yam mimic progesterone butcannot be converted to progesterone in the body and so is a waste of a supplement.
In order for things to work we'd have to take estrogen and progesterone as supplements themselves for a few months in the same way the body uses them....
First 14 days of cycle estrogen should be used more than progesterone with day 14 being estrogens highest day but careful to not take too much of either hormone so as not to shut the others production off. - and then switch to higher progesterone use than estrogen use during the last 14 days and stop both to get period then begin the cycle again.... In this way we'd have increased estrogen and progesterone sufficiently to cause a change in the body.
Has anyone had experience with bioidentical hormones PRE menopause???? And how has it erected you??
Wahaika waxingmoon and other scientific or curious minds are welcome to comment.
Author Reply
Aerie
(Login aerie84) Re: Help!! with premarin and breast growth options December 5 2009, 4:44 PM
Oh and that massaging and noogleberryinf ahould only be done during menstruation so as not to disrupt the production of fsh after menstruating of the production of lh during the production of prolactin while massaging/ noogleberrying
Aerie
(Login aerie84) Re: Help!! with premarin and breast growth options December 5 2009, 4:58 PM
and another thing lol... Increase fat levels... Not so much protein... As is needed for menstruation to occur like in puberty unless fat levels are already at at least 20%... to me
thus all makes sense...
Anyone else?
Shanen
(Login xShanenx) Re: Help!! with premarin and breast growth options December 5 2009, 7:06 PM
"Oh and that massaging and noogleberryinf ahould only be done during menstruation so as not to disrupt the production of fsh after menstruating of the production of lh during the production of prolactin while massaging/ noogleberrying"
Can you please explain this? Thanks!
aerie84
(Login aerie84) Re: Help!! with premarin and breast growth options December 7 2009, 1:04 AM
Well prolactin , as according to this site http://www.sharedjourney.com/define/prolactin.html and various scientific studies have found, is a hormone produced only during two times in a healthy womans life- pregnancy and puberty. Prolactin, during puberty, has a role in developing the breasts. I don't know if you've ever tried noogleberry and or massaging techniques but I have and when I did I noticed my period would skip or come super late.
I thought not much of it but when I researched it I found it was for a very senseful reason. You see, prolactin is a goal during nbe and it can be produced through sucking of an infant or other methods that mimic it. What I found is that during the production of prolactin, follicle stimulating hormone and gonadotropin releasing hormone, which ensure that an egg is matured, are inhibited and ovulation does not occur.
Estrogen is a major influencer during the first 14 day of the cycle and it matures the egg so that it can be released at ovulation. If prolactin is produced an egg is not matured and estrogen production is slowed down...
So what I'm concluding is that noogleberry may produced prolactin and may slow down estrogen which is nit good for breast enlargement. It should nit be done during your cycle when estrogen is naturally building up... Only after ovulation has occurrd should it be done and maybe not even then.
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Help!! with premarin and breast growth options December 7 2009, 4:27 AM
Aerie,
Very interesting stuff. This previous comment points to hyperprolactinemia as a cause of some instances of PCOS. Would you agree?
As for premarin for NBE in the first post, I have a few cautions about that.
1) It is only available through prescription, but under a doctor's supervision could be used, but on full strength hormones, I think that some direct way of application would be more advised than a global one. That is, by taking premarin to enhance the breasts, there would also be effects on the uterus also, for example.
2) It would only apply to some women, like those not estrogen dominant.
3) It would invoke the negative feedback system and downregulate endogenious estrogen.
Wahaika
aer
(Login aerie84) wahaika December 7 2009, 6:03 AM
thanks for the response,
what I was referring to was that the massages and exercises we do are trying to get prolactin to be produced. that is the goal, is it not?
to me it seems backwards because of the prolactin/FSH/estrogen circle. hyperprolactinaemia does not need to be the cause of prolactin production. the ingestion of drugs that promote the production of milk, like fenugreek and pretty much all the herbs we are taking, and the excessive breast stimulation caused by massage and noogleberry, could be the reason a woman may skip her period during this time.
I found that once I stopped massage and noogleberry and fenugreek, my period came back. When I only used fenugreek and no massage, my period was normal.
I have been evaluated for PCOS 3 times in the past year because I wanted to know..and I was fine.
I definetley think there is a connection between massage, galactogues(?<--spelling) and prolactin...
what do you mean by hyperprolactinaemia?
Aerie
(no login) Re: Help!! with premarin and breast growth options December 7 2009, 6:17 AM
Also with premarin, I also intended to use a progesterone drug with it. Negative feedback would not necessarily come into play unless the doses were too high at the wrong time. Instead use higher doses of estroge to progesterone first 14 days and higher progesterone to estrogen in latter 14 days like your cycle. Of course your cycle would have to be predictable but nonetheless a valid idea.
Wahaika
(Login Wahaika)
SENIOR MEMBER Re: Help!! with premarin and breast growth options December 8 2009, 4:44 AM
Hyperprolactinemia is just a term for overproduction of prolactin.
Hyper = Over production.
Prolactin => The subject condition or substance.
emia => Condition. Kinda like "....itis" is used for describing infections.
Premarin
Interesting theory.
Prolactin
Copying the other thread here for reference.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/371678/th...n+response
------------
Well prolactin , as according to this site http://www.sharedjourney.com/define/prolactin.html and various scientific studies have found, is a hormone produced only during two times ina healthy womans life- pregnancy and puberty. Prolactin, during puberty, has a role in developing the breasts. I don't know if you've ever tried noogleberry and or massaging techniques but I have and when I did I noticed my period would skip or come super late. I thought not much of it but when I researched it I found it was for a very senseful reason. You see, prolactin is a goal during nbe and it can be produced through sucking of an infant or other methods that mimic it. What I found is that during the production of prolactin, follicle stimulating hormone and gonadotropin releasing hormone which ensures that an egg is not matured or released an ovulation does not occur. Estrogen is a major influencer during the first 14 day of the cycle and it matures the egg so tht it can be reeased at ovulation. If prolactin is produced an egg is nit matured and estrogen production is slowed down... So what I'm concluding is that noogleberry may produced prolactin and may slow down estrogen which is nit good for breast enlargement. It should nit be done during your cycle when estrogen is naturally building up... Only after ovulation has occurrd should it be done and maybe not even then.
--------------
OK. I'm not a noogleberry fan, but this is an interesting subject. We need to define puberty a little better in relation to NBE. Is it safe to say that we are looking at the time during puberty that breasts do all of their development and most of the enlarging? This is before menarche when there is, by definition, no corpus luteum to produce progesterone. If there is progesterone during pre menarche development of breasts, it must be produced elsewhere.